A very silly threshold, since this would knock out probably 95% of the app store, including games, since "websites" are extremely capable these days, with full 3d graphics, etc. Then, each time safari added a new modern browser feature, more would get knocked out.
And that little asterisk would end up getting abused by pretty much everyone. After all, we wouldn't be able to add the same functionality to the website because the developers we employ for this are only proficient in `<native language here>`.
By-intent, it would definitely be a big chunk of the apps out there, but I would argue that's a good thing. I don't want an App for every brand I interact with, especially since I know what they're doing (harvesting my data to sell to brokers to make a fraction of a penny more per transaction).
Android has long had PWA support. Almost no one uses it at all. In fact iOS users have long had significantly high web browser usage than their Android compatriots.
"It's because iOS doesn't support it...somehow. Despite entirely separate bases that could be served in entirely different ways, it's actually Apple's fault"
A couple of years ago Apple pretty much fully supported PWAs, including push notifications. Still negligible uptake on either iOS or Android. It turns out that it was the PWAs vs the Apps all along, and had nothing to do with Apple. The web and the average web technology stack has turned so toxic -- those enormous frameworks that yield an atrocious user experience -- that people prefer the app.
Still though, somehow Apple's fault. Increasingly such adherents have to reach to successively more niche weird Google additions to Chrome to justify why somehow Apple is to blame. Because Apple doesn't support the new half-baked AdBlastNoBlock3000 API that Google jammed into Chrome. Etc.
It's just weird. At some point people need to be a bit more honest with themselves about why apps are preferred over PWAs or even just basic websites when an app is avialable.
But even aside from Apple's lack of support, the PWA standard seems kinda bad. Weird boilerplate like the serviceworker.js even if all you want is to make it addable to home screen.
Yes. Because if you're making a mobile app you want to target the two major platforms. If IOS's PWA's suck, you're not going to try and make a PWA for android. So it's a negative feedback loop.
>Despite entirely separate bases that could be served in entirely different ways,
differnt ways costs money. So often it isn't done. They pick a framework that launches to all targets and deviate as little as possible. We're long past the days of having two dedicated teams trying to appeal to android users vs ios users. They are all simply "users".
>A couple of years ago Apple pretty much fully supported PWAs, including push notifications.
They pretended to while changing a bunch of develop terms to make it hard to actually use the PWA's. They "fully supported" PWAs the same way they "complied" with the DMA.
Besides, adoption takes a few years. You can't make a half-hearted update and expect changes overnight.it takes a few years to really see the results.
Good example is Discord. Complex app, only really difference for native is something about push-to-talk.
Um... bluetooth? USB? Sensors? Basically anything dealing with external hardware is a huge hole. I can configure and flash my QMK keyboard from my phone or laptop just by following a shortened URL.
I mean, sure. "Web Sites" work great on Safari! But Apple cares deeply that "Apps" have broader capabilities than the browser, and it does it by crippling progress with PWAs.
Idk about iOS
Ah yes, the 0.001% of apps. That's clearly why PWAs have made zero inroads, even on Android where Google keeps tossing in poorly considered, completely non-standard APIs.
A small fraction of WEB PAGES, not "apps". Like half the apps installed on my phone have some behavior not purely connected to internet communication!
You just don't think that's a problem and like installing apps from the store and using iOS as your only gateway to the world and think "browsers" are crufty and silly. But that's a taste issue not a technical one. "Because I don't personally like it" makes an extremely poor argument against the embrace of open standards.
Basically you're the person in 1998 arguing for Win32 apps everywhere and that the HTML/JS/Java platforms were inherently inferior. How'd that philosophy work out?
No, apps. The vast majority of my apps do not read from sensors or do anything directly with bluetooth. The vast majority. Another strawman, which is par for the course on this topic. There is always just one more "but wait...what if the PWA could do {X}, and that is why no one uses it, even for markets where {X} has utterly zero relevance!" canard, though.
>and think "browsers" are crufty and silly
*NOWHERE* did I say anything remotely of the sort. What a ridiculous reframing. This discussion is embarrassing. You have absolutely no idea of my history in this industry, but let's say that it makes your contention so outrageously wrong that you should feel embarrassed. But you won't.
PWAs -- usually as a reflection of the way they are built -- are almost always garbage compared to comparable native apps. This has literally NOTHING to do with "web browsers being silly" (again, iOS users use web browsers doing web stuff far more than Android users do), however ridiculous so many have to strawman this.
>"Because I don't personally like it"
Amazing. There is close to negligible uptake of PWAs. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the world didn't make that choice because "I don't personally like it". Android has almost completely domination in many countries, and again their app ecosystem is overwhelmingly native apps. This constant laughably fictional rhetoric spouted on HN is just self-deluding pablum.
>Basically you're the person in 1998 arguing for Win32 apps everywhere and that the HTML/JS/Java platforms were inherently inferior.
Beyond ridiculous.
"normally" is carrying a lot of water there. While the back-end is shared, obviously, a large number of orgs have two distinct fully native development projects for the platforms. There are zero empirical metrics I can cite, but in my experience the cross platform thing is a minority. Cross platform tooling is often the talk among the aspirational "One day I'm going to write a novel, and then a hit app" sorts, but it just doesn't dominate in the actual industry.
But if it did, Flutter dominates the cross-platform world, and what do you know, Flutter can generate PWA apps.
>But even aside from Apple's lack of support
Apple has supported PWA for a couple of years. It was a lazy excuse by cheerleaders who had nothing factual, but Apple supporting PWAs didn't move the needle at all. Because it turns out that a billion Android devices not being targeted with PWAs had literally nothing to do with Apple.
All that stuff works in a browser everywhere else but iOS. Your argument isn't that it's useless, because you clearly use it and love it. You just don't think the rest of us should have it. Which is great if you're Tim Cook, I guess. But I doubt you are.
Listing possible examples does not prove your point.
>All that stuff works in a browser everywhere else but iOS.
Ah neat, so Android users all don't use the play store and their bank apps and robot apps and car apps all are PWAs, right? Something something No It's Actually Apple's Fault. Good god.
>You just don't think the rest of us should have it.
I have repeatedly observed the actual market here in actual reality. You have repeatedly somehow made it personal.
This clearly is a futile discussion. Have a nice day.
It disproves yours that the "vast majority" of apps don't use functionality exposed as PWA APIs.
> Something something No It's Actually Apple's Fault
It's indeed Apple's fault that those PWA APIs don't work in Safari, yes. I didn't think this was a disputed point. And again I repeat: your objection isn't technical, you just don't like the idea of portable web apps working on iOS.
I take it you're not a stats major.
> It's indeed Apple's fault that those PWA APIs don't work in Safari
A tiny percentage of apps use features that aren't available in Safari, ergo ipso sum, 100% of apps cannot use PWAs on any platform. Do you understand how utterly nonsensical this noise is?
I understand this thread is overwhelmingly dominated by rhetorics, seemingly by people who have zero experience in the industry, so have your nonsense.
> your objection isn't technical, you just don't like the idea of portable web apps working on iOS.
Your take is laughably nonsensical.