zlacker

A lot of magical thinking in policy these days. Global rich people went to London BECAUSE of the tax treatment.

There was no magical property of London that attracts people DESPITE higher taxes.

Very difficult to have any policy discussion when a second order effect is involved.

>>graeme+(OP)
Why does it have to be assumed that having the ultra wealthy living in your country and not paying taxes is a net positive? It seems close minded to just ignore the possibility that those people are causing more harm than good.

>>foobar+A
I’d presume they are spending a lot of money locally and probably employing a staff locally and driving other economic activity locally but I guess I could be wrong.

>>SoftTa+Q1
If only there was some historical data, maybe even 30 years of it, that could tell us whether or not putting money in the hands of the ultra wealthy had a sort of “trickle down” effect that benefited everyone else too!

>>SoftTa+Q1
A rich eats three meals a day, just like everyone else. They may eat nicer food, but they do t consume that much more than the average person. Indeed, the rich tend to hoard their wealth, removing it from the economy while the average person spends most of the money they earn.

Taxing the billionaires is a net plus for any economy.

>>only-o+l2
Fine, but is there any data that having ultra wealthy residents in your country(like Sunak's wife) harms everyone else?

>>sundae+C2
What do you mean by hoard their wealth? I assume like everyone else they have their wealth in banks/stocks etc and not matreses.

>>SoftTa+Q1
That is the theory, but unlike taxes there is neither an obligation to spend nor a required threshold to spend.

So basically just hoping that billionaires spend and trickle down.

>>shivas+p3
Real estate inflation is a pretty obvious way it does that.

>>foobar+A
if i understood the article, these people (1) didn’t make their money in your country, and (2) are not making money in your country. they just happen to reside there. it seems nonsensical to me to tax revenue that was made in foreign land. but people who love and swear by taxes think that more tax revenue can solve world hunger.

if the uk wants tax money on revenue maybe they should incentivize these so-called super-rich to run their affairs from within the uk?

>>only-o+l2
> putting money in the hands of the ultra wealthy

that’s a very sinister way to describe the reward for their extraordinary efforts. who’s putting money in their hands? where did this ‘who’ get the money from?

>>sundae+C2
How is it a net plus though?

Is there's a serious hike in taxes the billionaires will just leave and open companies elsewhere

>>shivas+p3
The GP is being sarcastic, we have 30 years of evidence.

It shows that trickle down economics doesn't happen.

The harm you're looking for is massively inflated asset prices, for example pushing housing out of the affordable range of normal residents and the actual tax payers.

So the mega rich turn out to be parasites in many ways.

>>yawboa+C4
what are these 'extraordinary efforts'?

>>mattma+O4
Also, more than once, the mega rich caused my meat to spoil. Terrible people!

>>yawboa+C4
> who’s putting money in their hands

If we're talking about foreign oligarchs living in London, I suspect a fair amount of the money is coming from Russian organized crime.

>>foobar+A
I think the consensus view is that they are massive net positive contributors (they still pay a lot in taxes in terms of things stamp duty or VAT, they spend lots of money in the country supporting business and employing people, and they don’t consume much in the way of resources like using the NHS or publicly funded schools).

I think the optics are clearly bad but the question I think people really have to ask is what they rather these people paying something in the country, or nothing at all (because there’s nothing keeping them there if it’s viewed as too expensive to stay)

>>foobar+A
It's not an assumption. The article stated that non domiciled residents DO pay a lot of taxes. That's why the UK is concerned that they are leaving and modelled against that risk.

I did a quick check and it seems like non dom's are about 0.11% of UK residents and pay about 1.24% of UK taxes. And this doesn't account for indirect benefits such as taxes paid on wages they generate.

>>holler+V4
I know you think you’re joking but I’d encourage you to consider the consequences of deregulating the food industry.

>>graeme+(OP)
London is also an attractive global city like few others. Most rich people would not want to live in Andorra-la-Vella just for tax breaks.

>>fmajid+N9
This might be persuasive if the reports didn't indicate that substantially more non-doms are leaving the UK than expected. The options are not a binary UK or Andorra.

>>balder+95
Most of the luxury and high end restaurants are closing down precisely because they are leaving. Many with a lot of spending, including their employees, which do get VAT taxed as part of their consumption. They also hire a lot of people and stayed after Brexit for one reason or another, Football, Culture, Kid's Education, Use of English, Comparatively high living standard in London compared to other European Cities. They stayed even after Brexit, but I think with a lot of things happening a lot are moving. And within their circle knowing others are moving elsewhere has an effect on others planning to move as well.

Very unfortunate. Brexit didn't bring as much damage as some might expect. But this new government, or may be even previous government as well all compounded to the decision happening now.

>>slater+U4
if the wealth isn’t inherited then it obviously requires extraordinary effort to amass. i’m not a billionaire and it’s not from a lack of trying to be. the fact that my efforts over the years—which are non-trivial btw—haven’t made me one is a clear signal.

starting and running a successful business is extraordinary effort. my life is better thanks to founders of all the companies whose good and services i depend on. i’m full of gratitude for their extraordinary efforts because they’ve made life worth living.

>>Doesnt+L4
They already "open companies elsewhere". From the article, the non-dom status is a tax-exemption on a non-dom for profits and revenues from businesses outside the UK.

If these non-dom billionaires leave, and they aren't currently paying tax, will we even notice?

The housing market noticed; again from the article, the value of properties valued above £10m dropped by 37%. So these "just leavers" aren't just leaving, they are taking a near 40% hit on selling up.

>>Isofar+Ca1
So then leaving is giving the government less tax revenue and hence less money for other people

>>graeme+Cf
There aren't many global cities that can compare. New York, Paris, Tokyo, possibly Seoul or the San Francisco Bay Area. Dubai isn't it, unless all you care about is shopping.

>>fmajid+5x2
You still have not reckoned with the fact that they are leaving. Whatever else is true the non-domiciled have determined that "somewhere else" is more attractive than the UK without the non domiciled tax regime.