zlacker

> Apple proved that a closed and locked down model wouldn't affect sales (in fact you can use marketing spin to actually convince some people who are plenty tech savvy that they are better off having their own access to their device removed, a feat of mental gymnastics I still can't understand), the whole industry has moved heavily that direction.

This is part that is unfortunate. You'd expect hacker types (folks who hang out here on HN) would be 100% behind an open-source operating system, and would freely allow a corporation burning money to make improvements to it.

Instead what you see is an odd (and counterintuitive) behavior of saying alternate app stores are bad, side loading is bad - mostly because of Apple's unique PR/Marketing spin.

>>bitpus+(OP)
Whilst there are some seemingly unpaid Google defenders here today, I am always surprised how many people come out of the woodwork to defend whatever Apple chooses to do.

>>eptcyk+v2
Ever since iOS and ipadOS came out, I haven’t had to do tech support or run malware removal software. A lot of my youth was wasted on that nonsense, and I see better uses of time.

>>bitpus+(OP)
> You'd expect hacker types (folks who hang out here on HN)

The hacker types are the riff-raff the venture capital firm put up with on their website about making money with software.

>>lotsof+zk
Good for you. If that's the bar you're using to judge a company, I'm sure you defend your utility company (they supply electricity to your house!!), government (paved the roads for you), the car company (built the car for you to take you places).

I'll see on a thread defending Airbus and Boeing next.

>>bitpus+(OP)
The problem with Android is that it’s something of a bad compromise. That one can’t just drop whichver ROM on whatever device undermines the whole thing, and unfortunately nobody in the industry with any kind of power is doing anything to try to fix that situation. I’m not even really sure that it can be fixed so long as smartphones are based around custom ARM boards. Attempts at truly open ARM-based smartphones all have a laundry list of problems mostly thanks to compenent vendors that won’t play nice with drivers and documentation (or if they do, it’s with SoCs so old as to not be remotely competitive).

Following that, I may as well benefit from an overall smoother user experience, better app selection, etc on iOS. It’s not open and doesn’t pretend to be.

I’m keeping my eyes open for a smart device analogue of x86 desktop PCs, though. It might be powered by an open RISC SoC design or maybe someone finally figures out how to make x86 work well in handhelds, I dunno, but the current situation isn’t it.

>>cosmic+6F
> That one can’t just drop whichver ROM on whatever device undermines the whole thing, and unfortunately nobody in the industry with any kind of power is doing anything to try to fix that situation.

You're right, but Google could do this (and probably the only one who could do it).

>>bitpus+(OP)
> You'd expect hacker types (folks who hang out here on HN) would be 100% behind an open-source operating system

Nope

I work on embedded security which is why there is no IoT shit at home.

I am forced to be tech support for my family, which is why they have iPhones and why i support locked-down hardware - less pain for me removing sideloaded shit than when they had Android devices.

I am bored of maintaining things - i just want them to work, which is why my WRT54G is gone and I use UniFi gear.

And I am tired of "slightly annoying, but i am supporting open source", i just want my laptop to wake up from sleep every time and last a while day, which is why I use a MacBook.

If it was open source IN ADDITION to doing everything else i want, sure. Being open source by itself is NOT a feature i am willing to pay for with any inconvenience. And being locked down IS a convenience when you are managing devices for people with no digital hygiene (aka: family)

>>cosmic+6F
> The problem with Android is that it’s something of a bad compromise. That one can’t just drop whichver ROM on whatever device undermines the whole thing,

You used to be able to do exactly that with Nexus & Pixel. That you still chose to buy something that doesn't let you do anything just proves GP's point.

>>kllrno+ZX
Yeah, because that’d be limited to only Dell Inspirons and Latitudes for laptops. Half the point of using Android (or Windows or Linux) was to not have to be bound like that, so if that freedom is gone and you don’t like the OS for other reasons you’re not left with much of a desire to use it.

>>dmitry+2Q
And if you were the one locking down what the phones could run, instead of the duopoly?

>>lotsof+zk
Does that then mean Apple can do no wrong and every design decision they make serves the specific benefits you enjoy in their products?

>>cosmic+e21
Isn't that literally Linux? You had a choice between the XPS Developer Edition or System76 and... that was about it for official support from anyone

>>kllrno+EY1
If you’re looking for preloaded with first party support, yeah options are limited. If you’re installing Linux yourself however, it’s much, much more universal than Android is. It’ll run on just about any x86 PC manufactured in the past 20 years and run well on the majority of them.

I don’t really need first party support though, as long as the OS in question has that kind of universality. I can grab Fedora or Mint or whatever and it’ll run more or less perfectly on any generic PC box I happen to have with a little effort.

It’s a much better situation than what we have with Android where outside of model-specific ROMs like Graphene, whether or not you can run a ROM on your phone depends on the model specific build (which has a decent chance of having been uploaded by a high schooler) existing and continuing to get updates. It’s a mess.

>>gaussw+C51
I was the one maintaining my WRT54G and my Linux laptop. Took too much time. That is the point.

>>gaussw+C51
I'm days later responding, sorry. I should have suggested more clearly: what if a Linux-based solution gave you the administrative control meeting or exceeding what you currently expect from less open solutions? Would you pay for it?

>>gaussw+BV8
Yes, but it doesn't. In Russian we have a saying:

If, if only, in my mouth -- mushroom grew, well then it would not be a mouth, it would be a garden. (The point is to not engage in impossible hypotheticals)

>>dmitry+Ghd
That's a great phrase, and applicable here.

I don't see why there can't be a well-funded effort to build a powerful MDM for Linux, but to my knowledge no one comes close. I'd think it would be very profitable.