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1. dkarl+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-05-28 14:50:16
> a lot of people are just kind of shit at their jobs

A lot of this derives from people not respecting what they do. We're too elitist as a society to care about the quality of what most people consume and experience on a daily basis.

I've never worked at a newspaper, but I went to college with journalism majors for four years, and I know that 98% of a newspaper consists of content that journalism students consider worthless trash. Knowing that it's trash was a measure of everything important about them: their intelligence, their knowledge, their taste, and their moral character. Seeing the lesser parts of a newspaper as worthy of effort and attention would call every single one of those desirable personal qualities into question. Given that, they all aimed to put themselves in a position to write the 2% that isn't embarrassing to write, but most of them, perhaps all of them, ended up writing the other bits of the newspaper, most likely embarrassed about it, most likely putting as little of their life energy into it as possible, while hanging their sense of self-worth on hobbies or a novel that they'll never publish.

I can see this in the personal arc of virtually everyone I know. The happiest people I know are the ones who have escaped this and still manage to respect the importance of their work, but the vast majority have given up on their jobs as a way of expressing who they are in a positive way.

You can see some regret about this, some desire for a different approach, in the fascination with physical craftsmanship, which can be made compatible with our elitism. There's cultural cachet in being a fanatically obsessed craftsman who makes highly priced boutique goods desired by all the Ivy League grads in Brooklyn or the Stanford grads in San Francisco. From another angle, we see it in the fascination with people in other societies who dedicate their lives to a craft, like in "Jiro Dreams of Sushi." But again, we can't imagine doing that and being second best, because we don't live in a society that values doing your best, only being the best. Dedicating yourself to something and being okay at it, serving not the elite but the dumb gross masses who don't know any better, is humiliating. The high school instinct to distance oneself from stigma, the primal instinct that it's best to be as far away from a social target as possible, has been elevated to a sophisticated vocabulary of complicity, where everybody is guilty of not fixing a problem, and the most guilty of all are those closest to it. If you're producing listicles for a newspaper, you are guilty of perpetuating the intellectual laziness of all of humankind, guilty of electing Donald Trump, unless you can distance yourself with disdain and cynicism, and plead economic necessity for taking a shit job.

In a society like this, how can we expect someone to care? It's shit, so it might as well be botshit.

replies(3): >>amanap+K8 >>pixl97+1c >>cridde+qh
2. amanap+K8[view] [source] 2025-05-28 15:35:10
>>dkarl+(OP)
Most people would probably like to contribute something good to the world, and make it a better place in some way or another. A lot of folks are forced to produce things they hate because otherwise they have no health care and may not eat. All so somebody else can take most of the profit and leave them with a pittance.
replies(1): >>dkarl+ac
3. pixl97+1c[view] [source] 2025-05-28 15:51:42
>>dkarl+(OP)
>We're too elitist as a society to care about the quality of what most people consume and experience on a daily basis.

Eh, I disagree with elitist...

We're too capitalist. Lines must go up, that is all that matters. Well, lines for the capital holders, paying the workers less to the point they don't care is fine.

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4. dkarl+ac[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-28 15:52:11
>>amanap+K8
People would like to do their best to make their impact on the world as positive as possible, but they also care about showing they have the critical ability to notice everything wrong about the system they exist in, and we don't give them permission to do both. Wouldn't it be nice if we did?
replies(1): >>BrenBa+aE1
5. cridde+qh[view] [source] 2025-05-28 16:19:38
>>dkarl+(OP)
If you haven't already read it, you might enjoy Neil Postman's Amusing ourselves to Death. I'm about half way through it myself and it has already changed how I look at some things.

He wrote it from the point of view of television destroying our society, but as you can imagine, the internet is so much worse.

> 98% of a newspaper consists of content that journalism students consider worthless trash

In the book, Postman makes the case for the value of news being related to how actionable the information is. The weather report is valuable because I might change my plans if it's going to rain. The story about a mass stabbing attack in Germany (which I bet your journalism friends do not consider trash) has little value to me, a person living in Austin, TX.

If there were ever to be a HN Book Club, I think Amusing Ourselves to Death would be a great selection for it.

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6. BrenBa+aE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-05-29 03:50:20
>>dkarl+ac
I think there are many people who don't care about that at all. Plenty of people are happy to exist in a system and not criticize it. But it's getting hard even for those people because the system is making it so hard to extract the things they do want (e.g., enough money to live a satisfying life).
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