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1. titzer+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-02-17 01:29:19
It's absolutely nuts to me that the government finds ways to spend money on literally anything but providing shelter, clothing, food, and support to people. UBI would be cheaper and far more humane than practically any policy--or lack thereof--they can think of.
replies(2): >>sarche+x1 >>idlewo+O1
2. sarche+x1[view] [source] 2025-02-17 01:39:39
>>titzer+(OP)
There are people UBI would help. But not the people in this article. The 2nd person in the article had free housing twice, but lost it both times because he kept fighting with people.
3. idlewo+O1[view] [source] 2025-02-17 01:42:11
>>titzer+(OP)
This is an article about a man who was given all those things, repeatedly, and went back to sleeping rough in the park. How would giving him money make any difference?
replies(2): >>Bryant+D3 >>titzer+x7
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4. Bryant+D3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-02-17 01:55:47
>>idlewo+O1
The hope is that UBI would prevent him and people like him from falling into homelessness in the first place.
replies(2): >>aprilt+28 >>rpcope+0m
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5. titzer+x7[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-02-17 02:27:24
>>idlewo+O1
> Recreation and Parks Department rangers would cite him and tell him to move

> The department’s environmental services crew...would tear down his tent when he was out and haul away his possessions.

> For Barrows, trying to forcibly remove Kaine from Golden Gate Park seemed both ineffective and cruel

> She embarked on a slow campaign of earning his trust and shepherding him through what one Recreation and Parks Department official described as the “arduous and achingly bureaucratic tasks” necessary just to be eligible for housing

> Kaine had no ID. All of his required public documents, from a birth certificate to criminal records, were under a different name, and they all had to be aligned to move his housing applications forward. Getting everything in order meant trips to various agencies — and the only way to ensure Kaine went was if someone accompanied him: either a member of HOT or Barrows and another ranger who was her partner at the time. Even then, Kaine repeatedly balked. For him, “it was overwhelming,” Barrows recalled.

> After seven months of cajoling, hand-holding, and advocacy by Barrows, Kaine in October 2021 was granted a room at the Civic Center Hotel Navigation Center, where he could stay until he was assigned permanent housing. Barrows and her partner helped him pack and hauled his two suitcases — heavy with gear, broken electronics, and sticks and rocks he’d collected in the park — up to his fifth-floor room. They helped him settle in by donating furniture and clothes, including the boots and pants worn by rangers. “We knew that’s what it was going to take to make it happen,” Barrows said.

..and long story short, the housing he got, sucked.

So they started by trying literally everything else first, including kicking his butt out, destroying his belongings, etc and then eventually had to have someone basically personally escort him through the system, to a get a shitty room and then get yelled at by his neighbors, and you're telling me that "he was given all those things, repeatedly". You didn't read the same article I did.

Besides, this article is just ONE anecdote. The system helps most people absolutely zero--on the contrary, it's a cruel as possible to homeless people in hopes they just move on.

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6. aprilt+28[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-02-17 02:30:54
>>Bryant+D3
He would have still become homeless with UBI. The home he lived in was owned by his grandfather and was sold when he passed away, leaving him with no home at 18 when he could not possibly earn enough to rent or prove to anyone renting that he had enough stability and income to be given a place
replies(1): >>gs17+wV1
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7. rpcope+0m[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-02-17 04:40:47
>>Bryant+D3
The whole UBI thing has always seemed absurdly naive. What do you think a junky is going to do with that money? That's a rhetorical question. I really seriously doubt having a few extra dollars in the first place is going to either slow mental illness or people picking up drugs, and frankly having a bunch of people out of work with money, for the vast majority of people in my experience, only leads to them picking up bad things like drugs in the first place. One of the most myopic views I read on sites like this, that are obviously heavily biased in their readership, is that if we give people some amount of money for nothing, they'll magically pick up art and entrepreneurship and other productive outlets spontaneously.

What's going to happen, if we're foolish enough to try UBI, is we're going to bleed a bunch more money that immediately gets vaporized (or at least put in the pockets of pushers and alcohol distributors), and then we still will have the same problems for at least 50% of the people that needed the focused benefits like SNAP or Medicaid anyways. We'd be much better served getting very medieval on anyone and everyone selling drugs, and then going from there.

replies(3): >>lukerr+RG >>Bryant+NK1 >>johnny+XC2
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8. lukerr+RG[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-02-17 08:18:27
>>rpcope+0m
> We'd be much better served getting very medieval on anyone and everyone selling drugs, and then going from there.

Ironic, isn’t it? Right back to where we started. Portugal has tried the “empathy” approach too and is now going through the slow and long process of rolling it back

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9. Bryant+NK1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-02-17 16:27:59
>>rpcope+0m
We've been "foolish" enough to try UBI. Studies show that it doesn't tend to increase spend on alcohol or tobacco.
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10. gs17+wV1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-02-17 17:25:20
>>aprilt+28
>when he could not possibly earn enough to rent or prove to anyone renting that he had enough stability and income to be given a place

Why do you think that's a fault of UBI, rather than the fault of your hypothetical UBI being insufficient? AFAIK any actual implementation of UBI would be intended to be feasible to have housing on, even if it's not very good housing. With UBI, there's a level of income that people are guaranteed to have without needing any proof, that's the whole concept!

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11. johnny+XC2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-02-17 22:37:14
>>rpcope+0m
>What do you think a junky is going to do with that money?

Go to a mental institute if we tie the UBI to some basic factors. UBI isn't just some altruistic factor that gives money to everyone without condition. They at least want to make sure you're a citizen and not going to fund the destruction of society with it.

>if we give people some amount of money for nothing, they'll magically pick up art and entrepreneurship and other productive outlets spontaneously.

Talking about non-homeless, it has shown to increase recreation. Not necessarily businesses, but it's nice having time to breathe when you aren't spending half your like just to make sure you can pay rent.

>What's going to happen, if we're foolish enough to try UBI,

You can speculate or you can actually read studies done. Domestically and worldwide.

replies(1): >>Bryant+dQ4
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12. Bryant+dQ4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-02-18 17:26:49
>>johnny+XC2
https://basicincome.stanford.edu/research/ubi-visualization/ is a pretty good place to start on reading studies.
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