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[parent] [thread] 39 comments
1. argsnd+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-01-21 09:38:51
#fuckbiden works, #fucktrump gets censored. They better have a good explanation for why this is a bug.
replies(10): >>tmount+M >>ta8645+I1 >>lukan+W1 >>WhereI+Z1 >>zero05+r2 >>Aeolun+y3 >>unders+2s >>93po+Iw >>mardif+r01 >>slowmo+wo1
2. tmount+M[view] [source] 2025-01-21 09:44:59
>>argsnd+(OP)
They don't need explanations. America signed up for this. Now, everyone is just along for the ride.
replies(1): >>osmsuc+t1
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3. osmsuc+t1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 09:49:43
>>tmount+M
"Everyone" worldwide? The rest of the world didn't sign up for this.
replies(6): >>baq+s2 >>nejsjs+L2 >>pjc50+N2 >>xnorsw+b3 >>nolok+H3 >>r00fus+K52
4. ta8645+I1[view] [source] 2025-01-21 09:51:56
>>argsnd+(OP)
The question for the people who find this outrageous, why didn't you find the opposite situation just as outrageous? For years, liberals have been tacitly and often explicitly endorsing censorious behavior of Twitter, Meta and others as not only legitimate, but desirable. And this outcome is exactly why that was a dangerous position to embrace. Because, soon enough, someone you don't agree with will come into power.

We need to denounce censorship always, _especially_ when we disagree with those being censored.

replies(8): >>timeon+m2 >>Neutra+y2 >>pjc50+A2 >>rofo1+m3 >>FL1ppY+A3 >>Aeolun+X3 >>thecla+i9 >>thiht+Na
5. lukan+W1[view] [source] 2025-01-21 09:53:02
>>argsnd+(OP)
So what happens if they don't give that explanation to you?

I mean, it is kind of obvious, Trump is now in power and Zuckerberg does not like problems. Or would you rather have a technical scapegoat explanation, that some intern messed up?

6. WhereI+Z1[view] [source] 2025-01-21 09:53:13
>>argsnd+(OP)
this is called "controlled opposition"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_propaganda

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7. timeon+m2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 09:55:53
>>ta8645+I1
You are painting it with really broad brush. Was Meta censoring #Republican before?
8. zero05+r2[view] [source] 2025-01-21 09:56:27
>>argsnd+(OP)
I get results on #fucktrump. Don’t know what you’re talking about. (In EU, however #democrat is censored)
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9. baq+s2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 09:56:39
>>osmsuc+t1
In a way they did. Europe outsourced their defense to the US, energy to Russia and manufacturing to China, now getting <censored> by all three, rather predictably.
replies(2): >>glimmu+P3 >>nolok+34
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10. Neutra+y2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 09:57:43
>>ta8645+I1
Let's not "both sides" this issue.
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11. pjc50+A2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 09:57:47
>>ta8645+I1
There's something to this argument, but a truly uncensored site 4chan style would never have been bigger than that site. The platforms have to censor CSAM; commercially, they end up having to censor slurs and abuse down to a level which the users and advertisers find acceptable.

(also there's a lot of false equivalence going on here - 'democrat' isn't a slur!)

replies(1): >>sirsin+zg
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12. nejsjs+L2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 09:58:45
>>osmsuc+t1
Hoping ROTW can make US a little bit less relevant. More non-US startup unicorns. Fund the WHO, UN etc. Surely 8 within billion people we can so it?
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13. pjc50+N2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 09:59:01
>>osmsuc+t1
I suppose we did when signing up to accounts on a US-based site. It's long been a problem that the US has de facto global jurisdiction of the internet.
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14. xnorsw+b3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 10:02:02
>>osmsuc+t1
We share the blame as we spent 80 years relying on the crutch of US military support and now we struggle to see how we can stand up on our own without the crutch. The next decade will test the resolve of other liberal democracies to survive this challenge.

Republics fall, progress isn't linear. Even c. 2000 years ago people were writing about how democracy falls to tyranny. The world is a lot more global now, but the Roman Republic would also have seemed rather "global" too, yet was replaced by the Roman Empire not long after Cicero was writing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cycle_theory

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15. rofo1+m3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 10:02:56
>>ta8645+I1
Yes and this is the core problem.

I have no dog in this fight and I want to see all ideas surface. Then people will be able to judge for themselves. I do not want any kind of filtration by either communists or conservatives.

16. Aeolun+y3[view] [source] 2025-01-21 10:05:51
>>argsnd+(OP)
That can’t possibly be a bug…
replies(1): >>_DeadF+z81
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17. FL1ppY+A3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 10:06:29
>>ta8645+I1
It never was that blatant; Liberals did not explicitly ran on "everything has to be free speech"; It is a difference if you censor hate speech or your political opposition
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18. nolok+H3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 10:06:59
>>osmsuc+t1
> The rest of the world didn't sign up for this.

He didn't say they did, he said America did, and everyone is along for the ride.

But in a way we did, by letting US (or China) control all our social medias.

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19. glimmu+P3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 10:08:07
>>baq+s2
We also outsourced our social media. That has to change - it's literally not safe.

There is a lot of witless verbiage about the "town square", but precious little acknowledgement of the obvious fact that every town has its OWN square, and that's the point.

For the last decade my feeds have been polluted by "content" about Brexit and Trump, almost all of which has been noise/distraction/propaganda. I'm sick to the back teeth of it, and it's time to make it stop.

replies(1): >>Wicked+W6
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20. Aeolun+X3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 10:09:13
>>ta8645+I1
I’ve always been in favor of censoring based on facts. It’s just a shame that one side of the political divide is a lot more prone to… completely ignore the truth. That means it looks like you’re censoring their speech, when what you are really censoring is nonsense.
replies(1): >>Dracop+Gu
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21. nolok+34[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 10:09:35
>>baq+s2
I'm not sure if I'm more disappointed in you acting like "rest of the world" means europe only, or by you thinking europe is a unified identical blob. My country of france neither delegated its defense to the US nor its energy to Russia, for exemple.
replies(1): >>baq+L4
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22. baq+L4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 10:16:24
>>nolok+34
Actually wanted to highlight France as one country which correctly identified the threat of US going batshit crazy soon after WW2 and positioned accordingly, but didn't want to go into nuance on this particular thread. Now that it's flagged, we can agree in peace.
replies(1): >>JumpCr+Xh
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23. Wicked+W6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 10:33:33
>>glimmu+P3
I truly believe the Fediverse is a viable solution. I've found Lemmy to be an extremely viable alternative to Reddit. The fediverse, more than any other centralized solution, seems equipped to avoid the hellish pitfalls that profit-motive behemoths seemingly must sink into.

There is no monetization, corporate decisions, manipulative algorithms; just self-hosted open source instances as far as the eye can see. Certainly there are rough edges and a perceptible decrease in dopamine from using them, but surely that's worth toughing out as they shape up if it means stopping the unfathomable destruction of society that we're experiencing in real time from big tech?

In Manufacturing Consent, Noam Chomsky makes a powerful argument that independent, citizen owned media is of critical importance if we're to pull society to a better, more collaborative place. It doesn't get more 'citizen owned' than a web of interconnected self-hosted servers.

replies(1): >>glimmu+Td
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24. thecla+i9[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 10:52:10
>>ta8645+I1
It's hilarious to me that so many people are just noticing the censorship of these sites. But hey, I guess that's a good thing right? Surely we all want freedom of speech now.
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25. thiht+Na[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 11:03:14
>>ta8645+I1
#republicans has never been censored. And tbh when right/far right content is being censored, it’s usually because they’re lying or prove to be terrible human beings. Not the same thing.
replies(1): >>chneu+8g
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26. glimmu+Td[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 11:25:47
>>Wicked+W6
I agree. As well as the technical merits, it seems to me to be a better match for natural human interaction. Your point about citizen-owned media is well made - in the US we seem to be seeing the near-total collapse of integrity in commercial media - on the one hand it is dismaying to watch, on the other it is as clear a call to arms as we could wish for.

It's been good to see Bluesky up its video game in response to the TikTok nonsense. I'd like to think that the Fediverse could evolve to meet the expectations of people fleeing Facebook, Twitter & co, but it's not there yet. Those of us who are highly motivated (and I am, after recent events!) will make do, but I think it needs to be easier in order to get the critical mass required.

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27. chneu+8g[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 11:45:55
>>thiht+Na
Yeah the conservative stuff that gets censored is crap like pizza gate and Wayfair selling children. Or sandy hook lies. The two aren't even remotely the same.
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28. sirsin+zg[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 11:50:25
>>pjc50+A2
The issue isn't necessarily that all censorship is "bad", it's that it is being applied asymmetrically to benefit a political party, blatantly.
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29. JumpCr+Xh[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 12:01:12
>>baq+L4
> France as one country which correctly identified the threat of US going batshit crazy soon after WW2

This was equal part pragmatic foreign policy and a desire by the French elite to hold onto their colonies, an institution strongly opposed by the United States since around WWI.

30. unders+2s[view] [source] 2025-01-21 13:24:04
>>argsnd+(OP)
This really just goes back to the fact that it's a private net work and they can do what they want. Even if it is censored, what can you do about?
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31. Dracop+Gu[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 13:42:52
>>Aeolun+X3
Who decides what a fact is and by what manner is information determined to be factual? In 2020, many major social media sites censored the New York Post's story regarding the Hunter Biden laptop scandal citing the report as political mis- or disinformation. The same laptop that many denied the very existence of became a lynchpin in securing Hunter Biden's guilt during his subsequent tax fraud case.
replies(1): >>cauch+kA
32. 93po+Iw[view] [source] 2025-01-21 13:58:34
>>argsnd+(OP)
my interesting anecdote from chatgpt testing a year or two ago, whenever it started getting popular, was that it would give me tips on assassinating trump but not biden

disclosure: i was not planning on this in any way, it was only for testing purposes

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33. cauch+kA[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 14:20:35
>>Dracop+Gu
I personally think it's a bad example: they censored this story while there were wild speculations. But at the end, it had negligible impact on the news. As soon as it appeared that the story was not a political mis/disinformation, it was not suppressed anymore.

If anything, it just shows that they are censoring based on facts: if there are established facts about Hunter Biden's laptop, then the information cannot be censored.

It is obvious to me that any brand new story is first "unestablished". They are indistinguishable from rumors. If you start choosing and picking "this story sounds nice to me, so let's not censor it even if it's not confirmed yet, this story is not confirmed yet either but let's censor it", then, it is arbitrary. The fact that a story starts as not confirmed and then turn out to be confirmed is not the proof something is wrong, on the opposite.

I think it's the problem of people who think "facts" are just "opinions" and that you can modify them as you want. They don't understand how "facts" work, and that it requires time for the confidence to grow. I also think that they sometimes get confused because they want very much to believe in some "opinions" or "fake news", but then people are saying, correctly, that this is not based on facts, so their only resort is to pretend this "opinion" or "fake news" is as factual as the other facts, but therefore it means that indeed, "facts" have no objectivity, everyone can just say "it's a fact" or "it's not a fact" based on what they want to hear.

34. mardif+r01[view] [source] 2025-01-21 16:27:46
>>argsnd+(OP)
It's not censoring, it's a private corporation and they can do whatever they want with their platform. They just want that type of speech on their platform, but you can build your own social media if you want to :)
replies(2): >>ric2b+AD5 >>smsm42+MC6
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35. _DeadF+z81[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 17:01:56
>>Aeolun+y3
They created two segregated lists on purpose. They implemented a change that only affected one list. They accidentally had a bug that exposed that they were trying to do something. They question now is what were they originally trying to accomplish?
replies(1): >>former+K62
36. slowmo+wo1[view] [source] 2025-01-21 18:17:55
>>argsnd+(OP)
I doubt it's a bug. I do think it's stupidity.
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37. r00fus+K52[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 22:47:48
>>osmsuc+t1
Apparently ROW = America's colonies (in the eyes of Meta), so maybe kind of yeah.
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38. former+K62[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-21 22:53:02
>>_DeadF+z81
Someone fat-fingered the "reach factor penalty for dem terms" and typed 01 instead of 0.1
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39. ric2b+AD5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-23 01:54:18
>>mardif+r01
It is censorship but it's not widespread or a violation of the first amendment.
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40. smsm42+MC6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-23 13:00:46
>>mardif+r01
Now witness how people suddenly realize what is the problem iwth this argument when it happens to them. It's free private action when we do it, but fascism when the other guys do it. Always so.
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