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1. vannev+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-01-13 22:31:43
I don't think anyone reading this article would conclude that PG believes racism is a bigger problem than wokism. Which wildly diminishes the actual real-world impact of racism and wildly exaggerates the actual real world impact of wokism.
replies(2): >>throw1+8d1 >>inglor+Bo1
2. throw1+8d1[view] [source] 2025-01-14 08:35:44
>>vannev+(OP)
Your interpretation is the exact problem. How many times do people need to say it? Racism is bad, what else there to say? Because he did not say it multiple times throughout the essay we are going to label him though and suggest and at the same time conclude that the thinks wokism is worse than racism. Sheesh that’s a great imagination.
replies(1): >>vannev+822
3. inglor+Bo1[view] [source] 2025-01-14 10:37:17
>>vannev+(OP)
The actual real world impact of wokism is that the left-leaning part of the elite is distracted into performative games outdoing one another in verbal righteousness, instead of actually doing something for the people, which should be the defining part of being left.

Woke is all rituals, no substance. If anyone profits off it, it is highly educated individuals that belong to the visible minorities = precisely the people that don't need so much support.

Woke is deeply uninterested in actual problems of the poor non-academic population. High cost of living? Food deserts? Meh. That doesn't register on the high-brow radars.

replies(1): >>vannev+n62
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4. vannev+822[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-14 15:16:47
>>throw1+8d1
He spends 4500+ words talking about how bad wokism is (mostly complaining about how some people are complaining about language), and all of maybe 100 words acknowledging racism, and even then uses some of those to say it isn't as bad as the woke think. If you were writing an essay opposing a solution to a problem you really believed to be a terrible problem, wouldn't you take a little more time on why the solution was counter-productive, and maybe offer some alternatives?
replies(1): >>throw1+M75
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5. vannev+n62[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-14 15:34:40
>>inglor+Bo1
>The actual real world impact of wokism is that the left-leaning part of the elite is distracted into performative games outdoing one another in verbal righteousness...

Is that really the only real-world impact? Is there no value in examining the link between how we refer to people and how we treat them? What about the affirmative action aspects of wokism---is there some impact there?

If you define woke as only the people performing meaningless rituals, then of course you're going to dismiss wokeness. But not all of it is meaningless ritual, affirmative action has created real change. And I would argue that efforts to take pejorative terms out of language are worthwhile, even if some people get overly academic about it.

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6. throw1+M75[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-15 12:22:58
>>vannev+822
Was the title The Origins of Racism? You are manufacturing an issue.
replies(1): >>vannev+I17
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7. vannev+I17[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-15 21:37:04
>>throw1+M75
So wokism has nothing to do with racism? Don't be ridiculous. You are ducking an issue.
replies(1): >>throw1+2d7
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8. throw1+2d7[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-15 22:33:44
>>vannev+I17
Clearly our views don’t align but I also don’t think anyone is ducking an issue. Racism is wrong but perhaps “wokism” makes it to be a lot worse of a problem than it really is. The article was not a history of racism or how to solve it. If anyone is moving the goal post it’s you. I will accept that we probably cannot come to terms but happy to discuss.
replies(1): >>vannev+I38
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9. vannev+I38[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-01-16 04:51:41
>>throw1+2d7
My point was that if you knew nothing about racism or wokism, you'd conclude from the article that wokism was a huge problem and racism a relatively minor one. Which may or may not be PG's actual opinion, but that's the clear impression that the article makes.

I personally find it preposterous that language policing by universities and social media sites (and virtually all of his criticism is about that aspect of wokism, and not affirmative action) is somehow worse than systematically jailing millions of people and denying them economic opportunities out of bigotry. But even if you think it is, the article doesn't even attempt to make that case. He just notes in a throwaway line that "Racism, for example, is a genuine problem. Not a problem on the scale that the woke believe it to be, but a genuine one." (Emphasis mine.) And that's about it on how bad racism is vs how bad woke is.

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