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1. Zamico+(OP)[view] [source] 2024-12-27 05:14:56
WebAuthn and passkeys are a disaster.

Much of the specs were created behind closed doors and never done in a way where we could have had outside input. They're completely corporate driven and designed to control users not empower them.

replies(2): >>reddal+X4 >>pas+Yr
2. reddal+X4[view] [source] 2024-12-27 07:01:56
>>Zamico+(OP)
I agree. I will not use them, not as a user, nor as a developer.
3. pas+Yr[view] [source] 2024-12-27 13:21:31
>>Zamico+(OP)
Ah yes the closed doors of the world wide web consortium.

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webauthn/

(nb. I'm not saying the folks were easy to work with or super open to discussion, but it was not some clandestine black kitchen where it was cooked up.)

replies(2): >>lxgr+mD >>Zamico+bS
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4. lxgr+mD[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-27 14:59:15
>>pas+Yr
The working group is definitely quite corporate-driven – just look at who's most active in it! – and has made some bad decisions in the past (my favorite example being [1], which effectively either breaks the hardware authenticator experience for passkeys or helps Yubico sell more/higher capacity Yubikeys, depending on how you look at it).

But I agree that one thing you can't accuse them of is not operating in the open. While I don't agree with some of their decisions, discussing feedback in Github issues as well as on public mailing lists is probably as transparent as it gets.

[1] https://github.com/w3c/webauthn/issues/1822

replies(1): >>pas+0y2
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5. Zamico+bS[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-27 16:26:22
>>pas+Yr
You're right that WebAuthn was much more public, but passkey was not.

I personally tried to stay apprised of passkey's development. After asking several developers and poking around the best I could, I was told several times that it was being primarily developed behind closed doors for corporate interests, invite-only, and wasn't ready for release. The only information available was the WebAuthn forums.

Even now the documentation is still poor, and there's essentially no rationale to understand design and architectural decisions. We're just given a spec and expected to adhere to it.

replies(1): >>growse+bE1
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6. growse+bE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-27 21:58:33
>>Zamico+bS
Passkey is just a fancy brand/marketing name for a specific mode of webauthn (resident).

Saying that "WebAuthn was much more public, but passkey was not." shows that you don't really have a clear and accurate mental model of what passkeys are. Maybe TFA might help?

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7. pas+0y2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-28 10:11:54
>>lxgr+mD
... arms in a wide shrug ... well, yes, and ... it was always like this, no?

DARPA was defense money, Xerox PARC was corporate money. The one big success I can quickly name that's "pure" is the web from CERN. (Okay I looked up, SMTP, RFC 821 from 1982 submitted by Jon Postel from ISI USC. But emails with the familiar @ were invented at a for-profit company by Ray Tomlinson more than a decade earlier.)

I'm not saying we should just slump into apathy, I'm just trying to point out that many mostly good things came from big corps. (And the usual problem is that they still hold the keys to the kingdom. For example see how hard it is to send mail to MS hosted email inboxes. And of course they hide behind "oh our users choose this aggressive level of filtering".)

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