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1. PaulDa+(OP)[view] [source] 2024-12-13 03:05:57
> measure how we've lost the optimistic future by tracking how Star Trek shows (including the post-2005 ones) got darker (literally, I'm talking about how the scenes were lit), the architecture less Hilton-like, and eventually, when carpets started to disappear.

Yes, you could do that.

Or you could just cite "Alien" (and arguably "Dark Star" before it) as the key break with "the future is bright and shiny and comfortable", long before 2005.

replies(2): >>slfnfl+xB >>TeMPOr+EP2
2. slfnfl+xB[view] [source] 2024-12-13 12:36:09
>>PaulDa+(OP)
Dystopian and horror-oriented science fiction have existed as long as the genre. Optimism is hard to do in a way that is both believable and interesting, which at the time TNG ran was fairly successfully achieved for a large audience.

I would argue that cynicism and fear-milking are easier paths (with certain exceptions for works which evoke multiple layered allegories and inspire contemplation), and I think this has become even more true in recent years for a host of reasons.

replies(1): >>PaulDa+6i3
3. TeMPOr+EP2[view] [source] 2024-12-14 12:01:43
>>PaulDa+(OP)
Alien (1979) predates ST:TNG (1987-), and as I remember it, it competed with E.T. (1982) in the popular consciousness.

Nah, dark or grim sci-fi were aplenty, many of them were just regular action movies (also popular then) but done in sci-fi setting.

I'm using Star Trek as a measuring stick, particularly TNG and later, because this was a very big, popular and long-running franchise, that happened to have baked in the idea of optimistic future for humanity as a core part of its setting. It's a measuring stick that spans almost six decades now, and you can see in it how sentiments changed over that time, and how the hope and optimism eroded.

Various dystopian shows and movies that appeared in that time, they were pessimistic by design, and thus work as spot measurements of what people thought would sell best at a particular time. Star Trek wasn't - the weight of an established franchise meant it could've kept selling optimism even as others would find it too financially risky; so Star Trek going darker measures a deeper change in the mindsets of writers and studio executives.

replies(1): >>PaulDa+di3
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4. PaulDa+6i3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-14 17:24:35
>>slfnfl+xB
IMO what mattered about Alien was not that it was dystopian or horror-oriented.

It is that it was about "the other people" who work below decks, or on freighters, or production facilities.

The comparison with the Star Trek franchise's efforts at the same thing says everything.

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5. PaulDa+di3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-14 17:26:01
>>TeMPOr+EP2
Fair, but see also my comment: >>42418281
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