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1. sangno+(OP)[view] [source] 2024-12-02 19:10:54
Yay - I can't wait for Pax Sinica to do away with the inefficiencies of democracy if it means more suffering humans will be uplifted. A brief period of reeducation is worth the amazing infrastructure and getting things done. The end will justify the means, right? /s

There's something unsettling about the might makes right amd post-hoc justifications dor colonialism. Especially considering the colonialists did not have those "noble" goals in mind. No one lauds Google the way they laud the British empire, yet the same exploitation vs. public benefit arguments apply.

replies(1): >>solids+n01
2. solids+n01[view] [source] 2024-12-03 05:03:27
>>sangno+(OP)
No one is saying it is right; but we shouldn't draw the wrong lessons from the Roman Empire or many other cases of institutional development. Being brutal and taking from others is not something that distinguished the Romans from other people (nor did it distinguish the colonial Europeans).

To dismiss the Romans, the colonials, &c, as of no benefit, however, is to deny reality. The Roman roads were genuinely of value to peoples besides the Romans. Perhaps the Chinese, to, will create institutions and a scope of activity that is of value to peoples outside of China. Probably not in Asia...

replies(1): >>sangno+Vh3
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3. sangno+Vh3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-03 21:54:07
>>solids+n01
> To dismiss the Romans, the colonials, &c, as of no benefit, however, is to deny reality.

At no point did I dismiss the knowledge-transfer as being of no benefit. The point I was making is that it is very easy to be on a high horse and say "It was worth it" when you were not on the sharp end of the stick. By reframing the set-up with China as the imperial power, I hope to show the readers that the cost of "upliftment" might be something the unwilling subjects may consider culturally valuable (like democracy)[1]. Such one-dimensional analysis is intellectually lazy.

1. Imperialism has been dissected many times over the centuries, in fiction and otherwise, but it bears repeating.

replies(1): >>solids+aV4
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4. solids+aV4[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-04 15:15:18
>>sangno+Vh3
Is it really arguing in good faith to put hypotheticals side by side, on an equal footing, with evidence?

Maybe the Pax Sinica won't play out that way at all -- who knows.

replies(1): >>sangno+d25
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5. sangno+d25[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-12-04 15:54:09
>>solids+aV4
> Is it really arguing in good faith to put hypotheticals side by side, on an equal footing, with evidence?

Is it arguing in good faith to consider other perspectives outside of our own? Yes it is, and I consider the reverse to be in bad faith.

While I don't fully agree with Kant, I find the Universability of an approach to be a good filter for identifying not-okay actions that are justified by the perpetrators - sometimes me (a.k.a. the Silver Rule: "Don't do to unto others what you don't want to be done unto you")

My high school history teacher would share historical accounts and encourage us to analyze the authors motivations and biases.

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