zlacker

An indicator light hardwired is nice but I apparently can't trust hardware manufacturers to design it properly. My work laptop (HP Dragonfly) has a physical blocker that closes over the camera when I haven't explicitly pressed the button that enables the camera. The blocker is black and white stripes so it's very obvious when it's covering the sensor. This should absolutely be the security standard we all strive for with camera privacy.

>>connic+(OP)
Interesting, my work HP Probook does not have that functionality. I wonder why HP chooses to do this only for some laptop lines.

>>kiwija+01
Money.

>>MaxikC+t1
Supporting that theory: my HP EliteBook does have a slide-over cover.

(It could also be contention between thickness of the display vs enterprise customer sensitivity to cameras)

>>kiwija+01
I suspect most people don't want it. I can imagine lots of people calling customer service "Q: why doesn't my camera work?", "A: Did you open the cover?"

There's just a valid an argument to do the same for phones. How many phones ship with camera covers and how many users want them?

You can get a stick on camera cover for $5 or less if you want one. I have them on my laptops but not on my phone. They came in packs of 6 so I have several left.

https://www.google.com/search?q=camera+cover+laptop

>>nox101+z4
I had that exact discussion with somebody recently, and it took me a few minutes to realize that their laptop had a physical camera cover that somehow disables camera permissions in windows too. So yeah, happens a ton I would imagine.

>>connic+(OP)
Probably the camera “power” is always on as any other microcontroller on the same board, but is only active when called through the control bus or an interrupt, having an LED tied to the power rail would keep it on all the time whenever the lapop is on.

>>nox101+z4
i miss android popup cameras.

>>nox101+z4
> I can imagine lots of people calling customer service "Q: why doesn't my camera work?", "A: Did you open the cover?"

In some over-engineered world, when the camera cover is engaged the webcam video feed would be replaced by an image of the text "Slide camera cover open" (in the user's language) and an animation showing the user how to do so.

>>nox101+z4
It's also a moving part. Worse, a part the customer moves. Which means more opportunity for crap getting crammed in or breaking.

>>connic+(OP)
The Dell Latitude business laptops now have a wired led and wired switch. Besides the white led, there’s no indication which is on or off, and I don’t trust any of the software or firmware chain to be reliable. (score one for macs being transparent and prescient)

>>connic+(OP)
> The blocker is black and white stripes

On my ThinkPad it’s instead painted with a red dot. Because, obviously, the conventional meaning of a red dot appearing on a camera is “not recording”.

>>neural+J5
Then tie it to some signal or power rail that only gets enabled when the camera is in use, and that must be enabled for the camera to work, e.g. when there's power to the sensor itself.

>>netsha+79
This doesn’t seem that wild to me. Zoom already prompts me to unmute my microphone when I cough.

>>JumpCr+Od
The cover on my laptop's camera is behind the glass. I suppose there is a chance that the slider itself could get damaged, but at least they minimized the exposed surface that could be damaged.

That said, I really can't comment on how durable it is. I only remove the cover about a half dozen times a year.

>>dole+Xe
For some inexplicable reason Dell has chosen to mark the button as "mute mic" (mic icon + X). So if the LED on the keyboard is lit up, the microphone is off, or rather, the microphone muting is on on. Brilliant design.

>>aendru+4m
Not just the weird meaning, but on my last Thinkpad the red dot and the slightly red glean of the camera lens look surprisingly like each other. Even worse I managed to get the cover in a position where it looked like it was closed, but the camera could still see.

>>netsha+79
We have that on the most recent generation of Framework Laptop. When the hardware privacy switch is engaged, the image sensor is electrically powered off and the camera controller feeds a dummy frame with an illustration of the switch.

>>nrp+4L
Is there a video or some images of this somewhere? I would love to see a demonstration.

>>dole+Xe
Dell should go back to the basic design of the Latitude E6400, but with modern electronics and screen of course, and drop the optical drive. The keyboard on that laptop was fantastic, and the single captive screw on the back panel was great for serviceability.

>>aendru+4m
Same on my Dell Latitude. Seems a very odd design decision. They've also centrally aligned the switch so that it's not immediately obvious from the switch position whether the cover is iver the lens or not. Super annoying.

>>nrp+4L
Happy Framework customer here, I just wanted to say thank you for all your efforts on privacy.

>>vaylia+5P
I looked it up on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6AsIqAmpeQ&t=1145s

And adding 2+2, the man being interviewed (Nirav Patel) is the same man who replied to my comment (HN user nrp), i.e. the man who actually did the overengineering.

If you rewind to 17:03, he talks about the changes of what the switch does (previously: USB disconnection, now: as he described in grandparent comment).

>>aendru+4m
To be fair a red dot is a design feature of lenovo. So at least it fits in nicely with the overall look of the laptop.

>>aendru+4m
I just looked up to my "Lenovo Performance" webcam and saw its red dot [1] looking at me... some product designers have a worrying lack of awareness about de-facto standards and user expectations affecting the UX.

[1]: https://imgur.com/Kowt8WJ

>>dole+Xe
Yeah, the physical barrier is key. It's not that hard, and provides absolute certainty. As indicated by this thread, software experts (rightly) don't trust software by itself enough. It's by the same rationale software people are proponents of electronic voting machines printing physical, verifiable paper copies of votes.

My Latitude 7440 has a physical slider switch that covers the camera, in addition to turning it off in a software-detectable way (it shows "no signal" and not just a black screen once the slider is about 50% covering the lens). My only criticism of this is that it's subtle and at a glance hard to tell the difference between open and closed, but I guess you just get used to the slider being to the right.

I was just testing and the white LED comes on when I open something that wants to use the camera, even when the cover is closed. This seems like a useful way to detect something (eg malware) trying to use the camera, and is a good reason to not bluntly cut power to the entire camera module.

>>netsha+k31
Our engineering team did the engineering!