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1. GavinM+(OP)[view] [source] 2024-10-19 19:29:44
Just as a data point, my guess is that a very small minority of English-language speakers would define the term as broadly as you do, at least in a context relating the concept to analytical thought processes. At the very least, I think most people expect that language is used actively, such that pheromones wouldn’t fall within the definition. (And actually, that’s reflected when you say language is a means “you can use”.) Likewise, a slap in the face certainly can be interpreted, but slapping doesn’t seem like a means of communicating in general—because a slap only communicates one thing.
replies(2): >>psycho+C5 >>dleeft+wJ
2. psycho+C5[view] [source] 2024-10-19 20:14:21
>>GavinM+(OP)
It's also doubtful that thinking about the concept of analytical thought processes is something most humans do either, at least not in these terms and this perspective.

Should we expect experts in cognitive science exposing their view in a scientific publication to stick to the narrowest median view of language though? All the more when in the same article you quote people like Russell who certainly didn't have a naïve definition of language when expressing a point of view on the matter.

And slapping in general can definitely communicate far more than a single thing depending on many parameters. See https://www.33rdsquare.com/is-a-slap-disrespectful-a-nuanced... for a text exploring some of nuances of the meaning it can encompasse. But even a kid can get that slap could perfectly have all the potential to create a fully doubly articulated language, as The Croods 2 creators funnily have put in scene. :D

3. dleeft+wJ[view] [source] 2024-10-20 04:39:06
>>GavinM+(OP)
I'm not sure it's that fringe. Popular addages such as 'language is a vehicle for thought' and 'the pen is mightier than the sword' reveal that language is sometimes implied to be tool-like, with many of our unspoken acts carrying linguistic meaning (e.g. ghosting, not answering a call, sign language, gesturing, nodding, etc.).

Even tools present us a certain 'language', talking to us via beeps, blinks and buzzes, and are having increasingly interesting discussions amongst themselves (e.g. subreddit simulator, agent based modeling). Recent philosophers of technology as Mark Coeckelbergh present a comprehensive argument for why we need to move away from the tool/language barrier [0], and has been part in informing the EC Expert Group on AI [1].

[0]: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/97813155285...

[1]: https://philtech.univie.ac.at/news/news-about-publicatons-et...

replies(1): >>GavinM+2B2
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4. GavinM+2B2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-10-21 01:54:43
>>dleeft+wJ
I think what you’re saying supports the view that language is structured and actively used—which excludes pheromones. But I don’t see how you get to the next step, of characterizing unspoken acts as carrying linguistic meaning. That is, sign language and not answering a call aren’t obviously in the same category, precisely because not answering a call fails to communicate any particular concept, and because people don’t use various modes of non-answering to communicate various things.
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