zlacker

[parent] [thread] 59 comments
1. dontre+(OP)[view] [source] 2024-02-14 02:37:27
Unpopular opinion… but IMO almost all of Karpathy’s fame an influence come from being an incredible educator and communicator.

Relative to his level of fame, his actual level of contribution as far as pushing forward AI, I’m not so sure about.

I deeply appreciate his educational content and I’m glad that it has led to a way for him to gain influence and sustain a career. Hopefully he’s rich enough from that that he can focus 100% on educational stuff!

replies(16): >>george+y >>nblgbg+V >>abadpo+v4 >>p1esk+v6 >>whatsh+kc >>VirusN+wf >>bertil+Hf >>johnny+Eg >>haverc+Ii >>sitkac+fj >>magogh+ak >>noufal+1n >>_giorg+gn >>camill+2o >>sashan+lq >>Simon_+ss
2. george+y[view] [source] 2024-02-14 02:43:19
>>dontre+(OP)
> Relative to his level of fame, his actual level of contribution as far as pushing forward AI, I’m not so sure about.

Are you sure about your perspective?

https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&h...

replies(2): >>the_ar+s2 >>iaseia+X2
3. nblgbg+V[view] [source] 2024-02-14 02:46:24
>>dontre+(OP)
Its IMHO too. His contribution to educational content is incredible, and very few individuals have the ability to explain things the way he does. However, I am also unsure about his contribution to the field itself. It is a side effect of working in the industry on the product side. You don't have a chance to publish papers, and you don't want to reveal your secrets or bugs to everyone.
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4. the_ar+s2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 02:59:40
>>george+y
May be this is what you wanted to share? https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=l8WuQJgAAAAJ&hl=en
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5. iaseia+X2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 03:03:52
>>george+y
ImageNet was very influential, but this just shows he was eighth author on a twelve author paper from almost a decade ago. Is there better evidence of sustained contributions to the field?
replies(2): >>laborc+M4 >>sjwhev+Zk
6. abadpo+v4[view] [source] 2024-02-14 03:14:11
>>dontre+(OP)
Education and communication is important. It brings new people into the field, and helps grow those that are already part of the field, both of which are essential to long term growth and progress. Using phrases like “actual contribution” to refer to non-educational acts is entirely dismissive to the role that great educators play to in the march for progress. Where would you be today if such education was unavailable?

He contributed to pushing forward AI, no “actual” about it. The loss of a great educator should be viewed with just as much sadness as the loss of a great engineer.

replies(1): >>dontre+tV
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7. laborc+M4[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 03:17:20
>>iaseia+X2
Hm, well, I see on his resume that he was a founder of OpenAI, recruited to be Tesla's head of AI, went back to OpenAI, and also has the most viewed educational videos in this space.

So, he has made theoretical contributions to the space, contributions to prominent private organizations in the space, and broadly educated others about the space. What more are you looking for?

replies(3): >>roflul+pe >>pagane+Gu >>slater+b22
8. p1esk+v6[view] [source] 2024-02-14 03:34:03
>>dontre+(OP)
his actual level of contribution as far as pushing forward AI

He did pioneering research in image captioning - aligning visual and textual semantic spaces - the conceptual foundation of modern image generators. He also did an excellent analysis of RNNs - one of the first and best explanations of what happens under the hood of a language model.

9. whatsh+kc[view] [source] 2024-02-14 04:26:38
>>dontre+(OP)
A hackernews comment section is one of the least legitimate forums imaginable for the public reading of somebody's resume. Congress, maybe.
replies(1): >>Judgme+Ff
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10. roflul+pe[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 04:47:50
>>laborc+M4
the commenter is probably a junior boot camp web dev...
11. VirusN+wf[view] [source] 2024-02-14 04:58:18
>>dontre+(OP)
>Relative to his level of fame, his actual level of contribution as far as pushing forward AI, I’m not so sure about.

He lead a team of one of the most common uses of DNNs, if that isn't 'pushing AI forward', I think you're confused. It's certainly pushing it forward quite a bit more than the publishing game where 99% of the papers are ignored by the people actually building real applications of AI.

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12. Judgme+Ff[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 04:59:47
>>whatsh+kc
Honestly I have more faith in hacker news users than congress.
replies(1): >>solard+hi
13. bertil+Hf[view] [source] 2024-02-14 05:00:04
>>dontre+(OP)
I would argue that's far more valuable.
14. johnny+Eg[view] [source] 2024-02-14 05:12:59
>>dontre+(OP)
>his actual level of contribution as far as pushing forward AI, I’m not so sure about.

I mean, I don't know why people still try to devalue educating the masses. Anyone who's had to knowledge share know how hard it is to make a concise but approachable explanation for someone who knows relatively little about the field.

In addition, he's still probably in a standing well above the 80% mark in terms of technical prowess. even without influencer fame I'm sure he can get into any studio he wishes.

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15. solard+hi[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 05:31:20
>>Judgme+Ff
I wish more of us would run for Congress. I'd much rather have a government of technocrats of various stripes than ex lawyers and rich business types.

IMO governments, like websites, should be boring but effective, focused on small day to day improvements, not all flash and empty marketing chasing cultural trends...

replies(6): >>smegge+4j >>ls612+Rk >>samgtx+Ro >>jdd33+fq >>christ+gq >>OJFord+YB
16. haverc+Ii[view] [source] 2024-02-14 05:38:46
>>dontre+(OP)
Disagreeing here! I think we often overlook the value of excellent educational materials. Karpathy has truly revitalized the AI field, which is often cluttered with overly complex and dense mathematical descriptions.

Take CS 231, for example, which stands as one of Stanford's most popular AI/ML courses. Think about the number of students who have taken this class from around 2015 to 2017 and have since advanced in AI. It's fair to say a good chunk of credit goes back to that course.

Instructors who break it down, showing you how straightforward it can be, guiding you through each step, are invaluable. They play a crucial role in lowering the entry barriers into the field. In the long haul, it's these newcomers, brought into AI by resources like those created by Karpathy, who will drive some of the most significant breakthroughs. For instance, his "Hacker's Guide to Neural Networks," now almost a decade old, provided me with one of the clearest 'aha' moments in understanding back-propagation.

replies(2): >>redund+Vm >>dontre+3V
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17. smegge+4j[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 05:41:15
>>solard+hi
I don't know, while lawyers and MBA's are not who I would choose to run the country, I am not sure the I would pick people with the motto "run fast and break things" in charge either.
replies(4): >>jonasd+Ll >>int_19+Fo >>Bigano+ks >>plagia+G51
18. sitkac+fj[view] [source] 2024-02-14 05:43:55
>>dontre+(OP)
What a tone def elitist thing to say, you have no tact.
replies(1): >>simond+wj
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19. simond+wj[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 05:47:31
>>sitkac+fj
Tu quoque.
20. magogh+ak[view] [source] 2024-02-14 05:56:26
>>dontre+(OP)
In 2015 he wrote this blog post about "The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Recurrent Neural Networks": https://karpathy.github.io/2015/05/21/rnn-effectiveness/

That blog post inspired Alec Radford at Open AI to do the research that produced the "Unsupervised sentiment neuron": https://openai.com/research/unsupervised-sentiment-neuron

Open AI decided to see what happened if they scaled up that model by leveraging the new Transformer architecture invented at Google, and they created something called GPT: https://cdn.openai.com/research-covers/language-unsupervised...

replies(4): >>imjons+wm >>jatins+Gq >>arugul+tu >>levido+jC
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21. ls612+Rk[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 06:05:21
>>solard+hi
You’re always gonna have a ton of lawyers in congress and state legislatures because if you were interested in law enough to become a lawyer you are disproportionately likely to want to write laws.
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22. sjwhev+Zk[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 06:07:36
>>iaseia+X2
He’s first author on a ton of those papers. That’s a tenure worthy CV almost anywhere. Gimme a break.
replies(1): >>iaseia+Cdw
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23. jonasd+Ll[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 06:20:43
>>smegge+4j
But what if we implemented agile and scrum? :^)

Imagine the retros!

replies(1): >>smegge+Bva
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24. imjons+wm[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 06:29:08
>>magogh+ak
Also in that article he says

"In fact, I’d go as far as to say that

    The concept of attention is the most interesting recent architectural innovation in neural networks."
when the initial attention paper was less than a year old, and two years before the transformer paper.
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25. redund+Vm[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 06:33:02
>>haverc+Ii
People like the grandparent think innovation and advancement happens in isolation.
26. noufal+1n[view] [source] 2024-02-14 06:34:44
>>dontre+(OP)
I think the ability to teach is a direct outcome of the ability to think and articulate ideas clearly. This is a meta skill that will make a person effective in any area of work.

I'd say that that his work on AI has been significant and his ability to teach has contributed to that greatly.

27. _giorg+gn[view] [source] 2024-02-14 06:37:08
>>dontre+(OP)
That's incredibly impolite and totally without foundation. You make him look like a peasant :-)

What do you know about his work?

He's been leading the vision team at Tesla, implementing in the field all the papers that were available in the subject of autonomous driving and vision (he explicitly wrote that). He has not published about it surely due to obligations with Tesla.

28. camill+2o[view] [source] 2024-02-14 06:47:41
>>dontre+(OP)
It’s like saying Rick Rubin didn’t do much for music because he doesn’t play any instrument.
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29. int_19+Fo[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 06:56:25
>>smegge+4j
It would be an improvement over "just break things", no?
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30. samgtx+Ro[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 06:59:39
>>solard+hi
This is like saying more lawyers should be writing software. Lawyers have extensive education and experience in the law and so work with..the law.
replies(2): >>bigstr+9w >>solard+5h1
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31. jdd33+fq[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 07:15:47
>>solard+hi
Look into the Technocracy movement and why it failed.
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32. christ+gq[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 07:15:55
>>solard+hi
If you like this idea, read the Fifth Risk by Michael Lewis (he also wrote the Big Short which you may have seen). The book essentially argues that this is already the case in many (crucially not all) government departments. I like to TL;DR the book to other people as "the deep state is good, actually". Of course, the government itself is absolutely not helmed by technocratic politicians.
replies(1): >>CRConr+1t8
33. sashan+lq[view] [source] 2024-02-14 07:16:12
>>dontre+(OP)
Would have to agree. Looking at Karpathys research career it’s hard to pin point something and say he’s the inventor of so and so. There are plenty of other researchers for whol you can easily say he’s the inventor of so and so and they have much lesser fame than Karpathy, for example Kaiming He for ResNet, John Schulman for PPO etc.

I don’t see that as an issue though, just a natural consequence of his great work in teaching neural networks!

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34. jatins+Gq[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 07:20:19
>>magogh+ak
I read that post recently and it felt prescient to someone who has not been deeply involved in ML

Even the HN discussion around this had comments like "this feels my baby learning to speak.." which are the same comparisons people were saying when LLMs hit mainstream in 2022

replies(1): >>sigmoi+Sr
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35. sigmoi+Sr[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 07:33:03
>>jatins+Gq
I had forgotten it's existence by now, but I remember reading this post all those years back. Damn. I also remember thinking that this would be so cool if RNNs didn't suck at long contexts, even with an attention mechanism. In some sense, the only thing he needed was the transformer architecture and a "fuck, let's just do it" compute budget to end up at ChatGPT. He was always at the frontier of this field.
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36. Bigano+ks[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 07:38:08
>>smegge+4j
That's Facebook / Meta. They do not represent us
37. Simon_+ss[view] [source] 2024-02-14 07:39:28
>>dontre+(OP)
> Relative to his level of fame, his actual level of contribution as far as pushing forward AI, I’m not so sure about.

I'd agree with that, however I've always wondered how easy it is for folks at that level to get hands on keyboards and not wind up spending their days polishing slide decks for talks instead.

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38. arugul+tu[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 08:03:58
>>magogh+ak
Is it stated somewhere that Radford was inspired by that blog post?
replies(1): >>magogh+C81
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39. pagane+Gu[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 08:06:22
>>laborc+M4
Tesla fumbled big on AI, and as for his work at OpenAI, he just left, had he been good enough they would have made him a financial offer that would have made him continue. But, I'll give him that, he seems to be a really good teacher.
replies(3): >>litera+MD >>hef198+7G >>ranges+JDa
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40. bigstr+9w[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 08:22:27
>>samgtx+Ro
I don't discount the value of having expertise in law among those who write our laws. That said, I think that lawyers have their own significant blind spots as well. A lawyer is an expert on the law, but also will often be out of touch with the actual lives and needs of the people. Ideally, Congress should have lawyers - but also plenty of non lawyers (from diverse backgrounds), who can bring their own experiences and perspectives that lawyers lack.
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41. OJFord+YB[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 09:19:10
>>solard+hi
I don't know about the US, but the simple answer in the UK IMO is that politics doesn't pay enough. So you get egos, old money, and people with concurrent business interests.

But try convincing a democracy that politicians should be paid more.

replies(2): >>LightB+iI >>plagia+251
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42. levido+jC[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 09:24:41
>>magogh+ak
He also wrote about the concept of Software 3.0
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43. litera+MD[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 09:42:27
>>pagane+Gu
I doubt he left because he wasn't being compensated fairly.

People just get bored and go do something else for a while sometimes. Or he's got some beef.

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44. hef198+7G[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 10:15:17
>>pagane+Gu
Not everyone is purely motivated by money so. I know that the moment I decided to quit or switch jobs, no, and I mean litterally no, amount of money would change my mind.

Me changing can never be used as an appraisal of my old organisation so.

Disclaimer: regarding money, if I get enough in max a year to rezire forever after that, I might be tempted. Which won't happen, because a) I'd just leave a year later anyway and b) nobody would pay me high 7 figures just to not quit.

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45. LightB+iI[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 10:43:40
>>OJFord+YB
Doesn't pay enough?

I believe the basic pay is £86k. They're not brain surgeons or rocket scientists, so even that is not that bad.

But I believe the average gravy train bumps this up 3X with extras.

It's a literal gravy train of subsidies and expenses and allowances! Sure the basic pay is, well, it's arguably not that bad ... but the gravy on top is tremendous. Not to mention the network contacts which plug their gravy train into the more lucrative gravy superhighway later.

replies(1): >>nindal+nK
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46. nindal+nK[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 11:14:15
>>LightB+iI
> They're not brain surgeons or rocket scientists

Yeah, voters don't want to pay MPs more. Yet when voters are asked, they want highly intelligent, motivated people. They want them to have technical expertise, which means time spent in higher education. Then they want them to work a full time job in Parliament during the week, but also be open to constituency concerns on the weekend. And once all of this is pointed out, voters concede that maybe MPs deserve to be paid on par with professionals like doctors. (It's a different matter that UK doctors are underpaid).

> But I believe the average gravy train bumps this up 3X with extras.

Citation needed. They're on a shorter leash now with expenses. Don't go citing one or two bad apples either, show us what the median MP claims as expenses. According to you, it should be around £170k a year.

In general, politicians and their aides in the UK are underpaid. Most capable people find they're better off working in Canary Wharf or elsewhere in London. An example is the head of economic policy for the Labour Party earning £50k while writing policy for a £2 trn economy. (https://www.economist.com/britain/2023/01/19/british-politic...)

replies(2): >>LightB+jm1 >>smegge+xwa
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47. dontre+3V[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 12:53:22
>>haverc+Ii
I don’t think we disagree. Education is crucial and the value is enormous, but this hasn’t been what he was paid for in the past. I am hopeful that he finds a way to make this his job more directly than at Tesla or OpenAI as the whole world will benefit.
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48. dontre+tV[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 12:55:50
>>abadpo+v4
His job at Tesla or OpenAI wasn’t as an educator though. I think a clearer version of my point is that most of his impact has come from activities he has done “on the side” and hasn’t gotten paid for from his job. I’m hopeful it can be his main gig now given that YouTube creators seem to be making more money.
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49. plagia+251[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 14:05:24
>>OJFord+YB
Congress pays great because you can ignore your job to be courted by lobbyists, get paid to rubber stamp laws from ALEC, and insider trade based on foreknowledge of what laws are about to occur.
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50. plagia+G51[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 14:09:10
>>smegge+4j
It's already broken. We could at least have fast internet and net neutrality.
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51. magogh+C81[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 14:24:52
>>arugul+tu
I tried to find the where I heard that Radford was inspired by that blog post, but the closest thing I found is that in the "Sentiment Neuron" paper (Learning to Generate Reviews and Discovering Sentiment: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1704.01444.pdf), in the "Discussion and Future Work" section they mention this Karpathy paper from 2015: Visualizing and Understanding Recurrent Networks https://arxiv.org/abs/1506.02078
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52. solard+5h1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 15:08:35
>>samgtx+Ro
Well, that's how you get "laws by lawyers, for lawyers", like "software by engineers, for engineers".

Maybe Congress needs the equivalent of UX and product types who actually care about what the people want... and can explain how it works to us in fancy how-to videos.

replies(1): >>dragon+9Aa
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53. LightB+jm1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 15:29:08
>>nindal+nK
Your first point has always interested me, as it's unclear how much technical expertise these people have. They just employ Special Advisors to do the 'difficult' work for them (again, something not included in their expenses but, of course, is a benefit). And the manner in which reshuffles happen when the Education Secretary suddenly becomes the Enviroment Secretary whilst having no experience of either.

Anyway, I'm very sure there are good MP's, but I'll not go so far as to say these people are underpaid.

I plugged the question into AI ... see below. Not to mention the subsidised "everything". Holidays in mates villas (and what mates, eh). The "director" positions on various companies, and, and ... it's not just the monetary value of these things. It's an absolute gravy train.

Generated Hypothetical Answers: we can provide some hypothetical scenarios based on varying levels of responsibility:

Scenario 1: Backbench MP without additional roles:

    Salary: £86,584
    Maximum Expense Claims:
        Office: £85,000
        Accommodation (Constituency only): £9,300
        Travel: Assuming moderate travel expenses, let's estimate £10,000
        Other Expenses: £5,000
Total: £86,584 + £85,000 + £9,300 + £10,000 + £5,000 = £195,884

Scenario 2: MP with Ministerial role and chairing a committee:

    Salary: £86,584 + Ministerial salary (e.g., £50,000)
    Expense Claims: Similar to Scenario 1, let's use the same estimates
Committee Chair allowance: £11,600

Total: £86,584 + £50,000 + £85,000 + £9,300 + £10,000 + £5,000 + £11,600 = £257,484

Remember: These are just hypothetical examples, and the actual value for any individual MP can be significantly higher or lower depending on their specific circumstances.

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54. slater+b22[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-14 18:45:42
>>laborc+M4
You left out a few prepositions like off the space, toward the space, from the space, and down the space.
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55. CRConr+1t8[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-16 15:24:49
>>christ+gq
Quentin? Your second given name, I mean. Mine is Romanus. (Just idly curious, since we share the first.)
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56. smegge+Bva[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-17 03:36:27
>>jonasd+Ll
>But what if we implemented agile and scrum?

thats what i am afraid of.

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57. smegge+xwa[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-17 03:46:35
>>nindal+nK
Voters want people representatives that will work out of civic duty. but is H.O.A.'s have taught us anything its that the people who claim to be acting out of civic duty to make a better place are mostly petty tyrants.

sure it would be nice if we could have Aristotelian philosopher kings style politicians but that's not human nature.

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58. dragon+9Aa[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-17 04:35:09
>>solard+5h1
> Maybe Congress needs the equivalent of UX and product types who actually care about what the people want...

Members of Congress have plenty of support devoted to both what people say they want and what they actually positively respond to. That’s...the entire political side of the operation.

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59. ranges+JDa[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-17 05:14:26
>>pagane+Gu
many SOTA papers for multi-camera deep fusion/birds eye view perception in autonomous driving were based on copying teslas homework after their AI day 2022 talk
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60. iaseia+Cdw[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-24 06:21:53
>>sjwhev+Zk
OP shared a link to just the Imagenet paper.

Agree he had a decent overall track record at Stanford, but that’s not how tenure works — it might have got his foot in the door as an assistant professor somewhere. He chose a much more lucrative path.

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