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Y Combinator CEO Garry Tan's online rant spurs threats to supes, police reports

submitted by etc-ho+(OP) on 2024-01-31 16:26:16 | 523 points 588 comments
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13. zozbot+I5[view] [source] 2024-01-31 16:52:36
>>etc-ho+(OP)
This was discussed already >>39162499 and there's no real news since. It's a dupe.
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21. cjense+o6[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 16:55:35
>>Invict+w4
In law, there is a concept of a "True Threat" [1][2]. Political hyperbole is not a true threat; sending a threatening letter whose only purpose is intimidation may be. So Tan's foolish statements are plainly protected speech, and it is sensible for the recipients of the letters to contact police.

[1] https://uwm.edu/free-speech-rights-responsibilities/faqs/wha...

[2] https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/true-threats/

26. kmlx+H6[view] [source] 2024-01-31 16:57:10
>>etc-ho+(OP)
“San Francisco supervisors”,

in case anyone else wonders what’s a “supervisor”:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Board_of_Super...

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39. toomuc+q7[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 16:59:36
>>bko+W6
> Isn't it the reverse though? If a not notable person tweeted this stuff, it would have blown over and no one would have cared. But since he is notable it becomes a story

This is not borne out by historical events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_You%27ve_Been_Publicly_Sham...

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50. cjense+m8[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:02:47
>>squegl+J5
The problem is that this argument is a logical fallacy. Threats to civic leaders are wrong. Whether or not they are good leaders does not change the wrongness of the threats.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

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56. Tarrag+y8[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:03:28
>>timr+Y6
"Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_tur...

Stochastic terrorism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism

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59. dgacmu+I8[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:04:08
>>zozbot+I5
The new part of this article is the physical letters that were sent to some of the people mentioned in the tweet. That hadn't happened when the previously-discussed article was written.

(Edited to add: However, an article discussed yesterday in a now-flagged discussion did have the letters: >>39199703 )

62. softwa+N8[view] [source] 2024-01-31 17:04:33
>>etc-ho+(OP)
From

https://missionlocal.org/2024/01/garry-tan-death-wish-sf-sup...

He hasn’t liked it when the threats were the other way:

> In the past, Tan has not been receptive to jokes about him: When commenting on San Francisco community organizer Julian La Rosa, who had said that “millionaires and landlords should be guillotined,” Tan seemed to take the jest deadly seriously.

> “This is not a joke,” he posted. “This guy wants to guillotine people.”

> “This kind of stuff should have zero place in San Francisco politics,” he later said.

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64. noelwe+S8[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:04:58
>>timr+Y6
No.

When people with power stay things, other people take it as permission to do things that are said or implied in that speech. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_tur...

71. riffic+e9[view] [source] 2024-01-31 17:06:14
>>etc-ho+(OP)
is this the dude that is known for blocking a lot of randos on Twitter?

edit: ah yeah he is lol:

>>32641557

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90. Ludwig+ga[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:09:32
>>Waterl+T4
It reminds me of the "in Minecraft" meme (https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/in-minecraft). Note, the law doesn't work like that: https://kotaku.com/minecraft-death-threat-4chan-pol-shooter-...
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91. benzib+ia[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:09:47
>>habitu+D7
The threat cited Tan's threatening tweet - certainly not "unrelated".

> Stochastic terrorism refers to political or media figures publicly demonizing a person or group in such a way that it inspires supporters of the figures to commit a violent act against the target of the speech. Unlike incitement to terrorism, this is accomplished by using indirect, vague, or coded language that allows the instigator to plausibly disclaim responsibility for the resulting violence. Global trends point to increasing violent rhetoric and political violence, including more evidence of stochastic terrorism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism

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102. etc-ho+Ea[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:11:04
>>rchaud+u7
Ben Horowitz is a pretty interesting guy

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/22/technology/one-family-man...

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105. tptace+La[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:11:13
>>rideon+09
Listen to Ken White's podcast or read his blog to learn that threats are evaluated in the context they're delivered in. "Die slowly" is a meme. In fact: this has been a running joke since at least nineteen ninety-nine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XASNM1XEQPs

Like I said, this "online rant, threat of harm" stuff (to paraphrase the story) is pretty supremely cringey.

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109. Terr_+Wa[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:12:03
>>idlewo+j4
He forgot the primary rule of then Inebriati! The hidden rulers must stay slightly-under two drinks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmp_--Oow5o

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111. __dere+2b[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:12:16
>>ryandr+o8
There's a Key and Peele sketch in this vein: Rap Album Confessions.[1]

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14WE3A0PwVs

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113. giantr+5b[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:12:23
>>ceejay+i6
...in Minecraft.[0]

[0] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/in-minecraft

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124. amadeu+Hb[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:14:18
>>thiago+r8
> GRAHAM: No, no, no, politics. The problems with San Francisco are entirely due to a small number of terrible politicians. It’s all because Ed Lee died. The mayor, Ed Lee, was a reasonable person. Up till the point where Ed Lee died, San Francisco seemed like a utopia. It was like when Gates left Microsoft, and things rapidly reverted to the mean. Although in San Francisco’s case, way below the mean, and so it’s not that it didn’t take that much to ruin San Francisco. It’s really, if you just replaced about five supervisors, San Francisco would be instantly a fabulously better city.

> COWEN: Isn’t it the voters you need to replace? Those people got elected, reelected.

> GRAHAM: Well, the reason San Francisco fundamentally is so broken is that the supervisors have so much power, and supervisor elections, you can win by a couple hundred votes. All you need to do is have this hard core of crazy left-wing supporters who will absolutely support you, no matter what, and turn out to vote.

> Everybody else is like, “Oh, local election doesn’t matter. I’m not going to bother.” [laughs] It’s a uniquely weird situation that wasn’t really visible. It was always there, but it wasn’t visible until Ed Lee died. Now, we’ve reverted to what that situation produces, which is a disaster.

https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/paul-graham/

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136. gerash+0c[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:15:08
>>janose+z7
Garry Tan is already doing the "thoughtful criticism" https://growsf.org/

Ranting on Twitter should not be a crime IMO

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143. etc-ho+pc[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:16:53
>>gerash+Oa
Gathering money to hire people to write the news in San Francisco is pretty hard.

Mission Local is a non profit org in SF that has done really great work.

Many of their articles focus on corruption in the city government, for example https://missionlocal.org/2022/08/nuru-sentenced/

You can see their funders here: https://missionlocal.org/our-donors/

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151. Apocry+Ic[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:17:57
>>timr+3b
It's not some obscure story. T.S. Eliot wrote an entire play about the martyrdom of Thomas Becket.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_Cathedral

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205. ethbr1+gf[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:28:46
>>tw04+ka
General rule of thumb -- if you're tempted to say anything that references "Hit Em Up" [0], don't do it on main.

Or, you know, just be drunk off of Twitter?

Elon barely gets away with it, and everyone else isn't that rich.

[0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ugD3_yt756w (goes without saying, but NSFW)

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207. soneca+nf[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:29:21
>>etc-ho+oe
The same story (different source) was also flagged today

>>39199703

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210. danso+yf[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:29:56
>>justin+jb
Virtually every supervisor on the current board appears to be Gen X

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Board_of_Super...

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239. Apocry+4h[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:35:18
>>tptace+La
A tech CEO employing hip-hop in this manner is also supremely cringey, if you think about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKuoXw2h3Xc

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263. actual+vi[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:41:05
>>ethbr1+gf
Elon getting away with it is the problem. Broken windows theory and all that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

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273. burnin+1j[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:43:40
>>tptace+87
>> unless you think Tupac was literally calling out hits on Chino XL, was not intended to be a true threat at the time, and certainly couldn't reasonably be taken as one today.

Huh?

There were whole articles written about the song and the context of the time in which it was written. Tupac lived a notoriously violent life and saw himself as a legit street gangster despite the actual reality of the opposite.

From 2017:

That opening line—that egregious, confrontational, hate-filled opening line—was one of the most unforgettable utterances ever committed to wax by the late Tupac Shakur. It’s been 20 years since the release of 2Pac’s scathingly brutal diss track “Hit ’Em Up,” a song that came to embody the venom behind the Death Row/Bad Boy beef of the mid-’90s and an easy reference for the antagonistic figure many saw 2Pac as in his final months on this earth.

There was a palpable sense of dread hanging over hip-hop in mid-’96.

The final paragraph of the article sums it up:

In the wake of Shakur’s murder, “Hit ’Em Up” would become a chilling epitaph for a feud that seemed to spiral out of control—even more so after the Notorious B.I.G. met a similar fate in March 1997. Taken on its own merit, it’s one of the greatest diss records in hip-hop history; but attached to the moment, it was a lot more than that. Something more volatile. Something more dangerous.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tupacs-hit-em-up-the-most-sava...

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276. ceejay+6j[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:44:05
>>ryandr+Nh
> Go over to YouTube and bring up some Reagan-Mondale or Clinton-Bush debates and compare their tone and temperament to what we see today.

Reminded me of a fascinating video I recall; Bush and Reagan debate illegal immigration in 1980's primary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsmgPp_nlok

They sound more liberal than half of today's Democrats.

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309. jacobo+nm[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 17:58:28
>>iinnPP+Rg
The comments here are pretty clearly protected by the 1st amendment. It's not a "true threat" by the standards of US jurisprudence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_threat

However, just because it's narrowly legal to say something doesn't mean it's a good idea; this kind of thing does tremendous self harm to the speaker's public reputation.

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338. jjuliu+Tp[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 18:14:43
>>gerash+0c
>Garry Tan is already doing the "thoughtful criticism" https://growsf.org/

The act of providing "thoughtful criticism" doesn't make it OK to tell people you wish them dead.

>Ranting on Twitter should not be a crime IMO

I don't really see anyone saying that it should be. People are welcome to rant on Twitter, just as people are welcome to take issue with said rant, and then form an opinion of that person based on the words they chose to post.

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356. jacobo+Ns[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 18:30:44
>>shuckl+Rq
Which "genocidal policy" comment specifically are you talking about? I am not personally familiar with that one.

Folks interested can read what CCHO said about SB35 here: https://www.sfccho.org/in-the-news/2018/10/13/opinion-alarmi...

The crux of their concern/prediction is:

> As currently written, the practical outcome of SB 35 will be to further expedite and accelerate market-rate approvals in the small handful of California communities where the real estate market is already hot – communities that are overwhelmingly urban, low-income, and predominantly people of color. These are the same communities that are currently grappling with displacement and gentrification, and typically have terrible imbalances of market-rate housing development compared to affordable housing. Simply accelerating approvals in those communities is just a recipe to spur even more aggressive gentrification.

I personally think folks like the CCHO are taking a misguided policy approach to solving/ameliorating the problems they worry about, and sometimes behave disingenuously (and should be called out, with specific details, when they do so). But that doesn't make their concerns illegitimate.

Here's an example of an earlier direct reply by Wiener to CCHO about the bill: http://www.beyondchron.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Senato...

> This housing crisis will never be solved without a solution that includes a significantly increased supply of all types of housing, at all income levels, in every community throughout California, both subsidized and non-subsidized. The devastating eviction crisis and rapid displacement of low- and middle-income people from cities results, in large part, from failing to build enough housing for the past half century. SB 35 empowers the state to take action and ensure that every single community is approving its fair share of housing – especially those communities currently punting their housing needs to neighboring jurisdictions.

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359. klyrs+au[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 18:37:13
>>codege+Ue
> I guess my worry is not about free speech or other people just criticizing but more of the woke crowd that just wants to cancel you because they disagree.

What's wrong with the "woke crowd?" Is that not merely a nebulous group of people who have political opinions with which you disagree? What's wrong with them wanting to "cancel" you? Is that not an exercise of free speech and free association? Freedom of speech has never meant freedom from consequences. "Cancellation" just a social consequence, is it not?

Behind each of these question marks is nuance: I like Ken White's treatment of the topic: https://popehat.substack.com/p/our-fundamental-right-to-sham...

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364. shuckl+6w[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 18:46:56
>>jacobo+Ns
It’s hard to look up since many of the offending characters have since scrubbed information or protected their social media presence.

Here is Calvin Welch, friends with Marti and Cohen and housing guru to Sup. Preston, saying Home S.F., a gentler streamlining measure vs. SB35, was ethnic cleansing: https://missionlocal.org/2016/01/sf-delays-controversial-hou....

I’ll keep looking for the other statement I had in mind.

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380. astola+NC[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 19:21:10
>>EGG_CR+li
They also think their voter information was "leaked" when they registered to vote, so it doesn't sound like they're very civically informed...

>>39206679

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398. ethbr1+nQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 20:28:40
>>actual+Sr
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_World (1883)
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422. nebula+Id1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 22:33:34
>>s1arti+iM
>Im not sure where you stand. Are you arguing that his public persona is currently a net benefit to his corporate objectives? That they are so small they cant be quantified? That the consequences fall short of what would happen in a morally just world?

I am going to quote your post out of order to answer easier(hopefully you don't mind).

The reason I broke it down is to make the point that I feel those real world consequences are minuscule enough to the point where it does not matter. Maybe I should have clarified more in my prior post.

> I know several people who love tesla cars, but wont buy them due to Musk association, so I am going off that.

Its funny as I know multiple college professors with the same mindset. They ended up buying 80-100k BMWs or Mercedes Benz instead of Tesla. The market above 50k represents a small portion of the market. I call this the managerial class price tier. The further you go down the more people become price sensitive and that is what Musk is counting on.

He was never going to own 100% of the car market in the US, there are just too many players with more entering soon(The Chinese). So if some(maybe even the majority of) liberals refuse to buy Teslas, I am not sure if it would matter long term. The demographic makeup of his buyers may shift but the absolute numbers wont (once the numbers settle after the Chinese enter the market). His cars are just so much more competitive vs everyone else and selfish interests will sway enough buyers especially when the majority of buyers are price sensitive above all else. Its like that old push in the 70-80s to "Buy American" as the Japanese flooded the market with much better products at way better prices. In the end GM saw their market share crumble from ~50% to what it is today (~17%)

Ditto for everything else. The DOD working less with him is only a net negative to themselves. Its been 1+years since the announcement of the twitter takeover. If anything would have changed at DOD we would have seen it by now. Instead efforts at SpaceX have only accelerated since he exposed his views on Twitter.

Just as a small example: In 2023 1 year post twitter: World record for launches of any rocket in a single year (96) beating the second best record (Soviet Union at 60 launches) and anything the US govt has done, Falcon heavy improvements surpassed the world record for heavy lift vehicles(Saturn V). A record number of those launches have also been private for the government. I dont see any evidence the DOD is slowing down with them. They are speeding up.

Source of the above claims: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8GZ0H0xSFo

>Similarly, Musk wants twitter to be successful, and hostility to and from the political left has made that all but impossible.

There are theories that he wanted to move twitter in this direction as it killed the only major way for people to push back against the powers that be. Just think of how many revolutions started on Twitter and sustained itself due to the real time nature of the platform. Now we are seeing Pro-Palestinian people being banned. I really don't know what his plan is for Twitter and it is still baffling that he continues to execute brilliantly in his other companies yet this remains a dumpster fire.

>Early musk benefitted greatly from his social reputation and hype. My perspective is that his public persona since ~2019 has been more of a drag than boost.

I was part of the Tesla "skeptic" community from 2016-2020. I saw first hand how so many industry experts were shouting from the rooftops at how terrible Musk was as a person. The Left only discovered this side of Musk when it was inconvenient for them. Before that they were happy to ignore the actual people working in industry and enjoy this "real life tony stark". The skeptic community was continually wrong about him. Every giant pitfall that they said was coming did indeed come but he always found a way around it. He has proven (to me) that in this country, the kind of success he has gotten makes his public persona not important in the grand scheme of things. Until something drastically changes, (maybe an extreme anti-corporate government that is just impossible until at least 2028) he is going to keep flying further and further forwards regardless of what people think of him. Hell this year is the year I finally started believing that landing someone on Mars will happen and he will be the one that makes it possible. If that happens no one is going to remember the leftists that criticized him in the history books.

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431. dang+1n1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-31 23:27:54
>>IshKeb+r11
We didn't touch the post. It set off the flamewar detector, and rightly so. However, because of the principle I described recently at >>39172045 *, I'm going to turn that off now.

* and past explanations over the years: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

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471. ahonhn+TP1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 04:31:59
>>Apocry+Ic
Indeed, though I suspect many might first have learnt of it watching Blackadder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rNopZDwahg
473. Lammy+VQ1[view] [source] 2024-02-01 04:47:07
>>etc-ho+(OP)
ok but he's right though https://old.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/hthfgb/aaron_peski...
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478. maeil+2S1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 05:04:09
>>tootie+1a
No repercussions for violent threats to innocent people when made by higherups in SV tech is par for the course nowadays.

Take OpenAI's Head of Research (quite the public role given they're a research company) openly calling for genocide in Gaza, asking to "finish them", "More! No mercy!" including civilians, over a series of 80 deranged tweets. [1] Zero repercussions, still happily heading research at a company whose supposed objective is developing AGI for the benefit of mankind.

Also very quickly scrubbed off of HN [2].

[1] >>39124666

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20231226171217/https://news.ycom...

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484. specia+bV1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 05:47:21
>>rchaud+u7
Heh. I look forward to If Books Could Kill's review. Failing that, I imagine this review properly captures the gist:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RFZJKA736UBAH/ref...

I'll reserve judgement until we see how a16z's "digital asset class" thing pans out. Some might even say blockchains are eating the world.

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485. specia+dW1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 05:59:52
>>etc-ho+Ea
TIL: Son of David Horowitz. Oh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horowitz

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486. somena+hW1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 06:00:09
>>somena+Jo
Really amusing aside. This article, "Shitshow! Britain’s potty-mouthed parliament", was just published: https://www.politico.eu/article/britains-potty-mouthed-parli...

That stiff upper lip has, perhaps, become a bit more relaxed.

504. alecco+T82[view] [source] 2024-02-01 08:44:18
>>etc-ho+(OP)
For context, Peskin himself is known to verbally harass public officials while intoxicated:

> Verbal harassment

> Peskin has been known to make inappropriate late night phone calls to public officials and private citizens.[9] For example, he called the Port of San Francisco director Monique Moyer several times about cutting their funding over disagreements concerning waterfront building height limits. Mayor Newsom told the San Francisco Chronicle that people around city hall had been complaining about Peskin's behavior for years.[49] However, former San Francisco Mayor Art Agnos has said Peskin's alleged behavior falls "well within the boundaries of the system" and that it's "not unusual in politics at any level of government."[49]

> In 2018, at the scene of the St. Patrick's Day fire in North Beach, Peskin was reportedly intoxicated while he verbally berated then-Deputy Fire Chief of Operations Mark Gonzalez. Peskin has denied being intoxicated at the time but has apologized for his behavior.[50]

> In June 2021, Peskin announced in a statement that he would be entering into alcohol treatment.[51] Peskin apologized for behavior that he attributed to his alcohol problem, but also announced that he planned to remain in office while in treatment.[52]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Peskin#Verbal_harassment

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512. tim333+LB2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 13:31:05
>>tootie+1a
Tan has apologized:

>“I apologize to the Board of Supervisors for my comments late last night in a post,” Tan wrote. “There is no place, no excuse and no reason for this type of speech and charged language in discourse. I am sorry for my words and regret my poor decision. I love San Francisco. I know the community will hold me accountable and keep focused on our true mission: making San Francisco a vibrant, prosperous and safe place.”

Having seen him talk on video he seems like a decent guy who is not very good at dealing with conficts. See eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4yMc99fpfY&t=630s

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519. jhbadg+yO2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 14:44:35
>>ahonhn+TP1
Or the Richard Burton/Peter O'Toole movie "Becket" (1964) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057877/
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529. jodrel+t93[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 16:34:47
>>skeete+ln
"Managers often say they'll reward something – perhaps they even believe it. But then they proceed to reward different things. I think people are fairly good at predicting this discrepancy...." - "People can read their manager's mind", Jossi Kreinin - https://yosefk.com/blog/people-can-read-their-managers-mind....
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535. etc-ho+pz3[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 18:30:41
>>protoc+pI1
"San Francisco" is simultaneously a county and city. San Francisco Supervisors are members of the San Francisco Board Of Supervisors. same thing as a city council.

https://sfbos.org/

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549. StackR+ik4[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-02-01 22:26:22
>>NoobSa+A23
See >>32639125
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