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Similar, though leaving the US had a lot to do with hedging our bets against a crumbling democracy as well.

How is Finland? It was on our list but we wanted to have good train connections to the continent so ended up in the Netherlands (but above sea level). Oulu has impressive winter cycling though.

>>CalRob+(OP)
I lived in Oulu for a time, and yes it does indeed live up to its winter cycling reputation. Actually most of my wife's family lives around that region, so we'll probably return up there in a few years.

Finland is terrific! Learning the language is tough, and recommended, but ultimately optional for white collar migrants. The lower salaries here are unfortunate - I make a third of what I could make as a software lead in the US (~50k vs ~150k). Doubly so as there really is a lot of top notch engineering talent here, probably because it's so hard to hire people that FTEs end up having to learn a lot about everything lol. I haven't yet carved a path to make US level money while living in Finland - but you'd better believe it's on my list of things to beeline towards once I hit my thirties.

>>CalRob+(OP)
Whatever bothered you about US politics is also happening in Europe. There's no Trump, he's one of a kind, but there's polarization, distrust in institutions and populism just fine. It's the same disease really.

Also - I can't imagine North Europe will remain prosperous if America somehow fails, the West is very much dependent on the U.S (now also for energy). But I do hope you enjoy your time, I lived in Leiden for almost 4 years and it was like living in a postcard. Shit weather though.

>>hiAndr+h3
Salary comparisons without accounting for cost of living is entirely useless and means nothing.

>>askono+w6
Meh, you can come up with twenty different methodologies and they all point to coming out way way behind in Finland. SF -> Finland immigrant, took approximately 70% pay cut, and enjoying the 80% marginal tax rate.

The health of democracy is way better than the US at least.

>>hrudud+89
Consumer prices are 35% lower in Finland, rent prices are 70% lower in Finland, when comparing to SF.

>>askono+Bb
Consumer prices are not lower in Finland, although VAT is responsible for a lot of the difference, to be fair. Yeah, sales tax in Finland is 24%. I've been in both places in the last year, cried when I bought my used Toyota here. Rent indeed is 70% lower, but you lose by having 70% lower rent and 70% lower salary. Besides, median salaries in Finland are 15% of what they are in SF (staff swe at 500k vs 90k). And the tax burden is way lower, even in CA. Finland has a lot going for it, but there's just no point in debating the money part.

>>hiAndr+h3
I make around 150 by working remote for a US client, but it probably won't last given the market.

>>weathe+n5
True, it's a big concern. I don't love Geert Wilders' popularity either.

I said it's a hedge, not a sure thing!

>>askono+Bb
> Consumer prices are 35% lower in Finland, rent prices are 70% lower in Finland, when comparing to SF.

When comparing to SF, 90% of the planet is that much more affordable. Sheesh there’s more to the world than the plight of San Francisco.

>>hrudud+li
Do you have a source? My stats are from: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou..., but I'm happy to learn of more correct info on this topic.

>>chasd0+Uk
Who I was responding to said they are from SF, hence why I compared data to SF.

>>askono+Ol
My anecdote against a couple hundred, I stand corrected. I think the overall point stands though :)

>>askono+Xl
My bad