zlacker

I have read a bit about this and I understand the explanation but I still don’t understand how a group of people subject to genocide can turn around and a few generations later be behaving in many (obviously not all) of the same ways toward another group. I would think that if anything the Israeli people would have some empathy and try to find a two state solution that exists in peace.

>>voisin+(OP)
Reminds the cases of child abuse that run in families, with former child victims becoming perpetrators against their own children[1]. But on on a whole society level.

[1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-...

>>voisin+(OP)
There are many Jewish people, born in Israel and outside of Israel, who do long for a two-state solution or a one-state solution where everyone lives as equals. But sadly those are not the people who hold political or military power.

>>voisin+(OP)
Because propaganda works everywhere. Teach people that “the other” seeks their destruction and then reframe any violence as tragically necessary self-defense.

The history books don’t mention the Nakba and civilian casualty statistics in Gaza are dismissed as Hamas propaganda.

And I don’t mean to suggest Israel is unique in this. There are many parallels for instance with American “world police” patriotism.

>>voisin+(OP)
Eliminating Hamas is not genocide though. Pretending that war is a video game only helps their propaganda.

>>voisin+(OP)
The Palestinians have been offered a two-state solution on more-or-less reasonable terms on at least two occasions. It isn't for me to say whether they were right to reject those offers, but the human cost of continued conflict has obviously been borne disproportionately by the Palestinians, particularly Palestinian civilians. Sadly, the actions of extremists on both sides have made the possibility of a two state solution increasingly remote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

>>gizmo+lJ
>Teach people that “the other” seeks their destruction

I think recent events have taught this to Israel without any help from propagandists.

>>robert+n21
I refer in my comment to the impact to non-Hamas Palestinians. Eliminating the terrorist organization of Hamas is not controversial (at least in my mind), but the civilian casualties to regular Palestinians seems to be indefensible (again, at least in my mind)

>>voisin+oo1
Problem is no one will take refugees from Gaza even temporarily. If countries would the death toll would be much less. The reason Egypt doesn't is because Hamas has links to and provides support for Islamic terrorists groups involved the Sinai Insurgency. I think that hope had been that over time since 2007 Hamas would moderate and act more rationally. Instead the opposite has happened.

So the combination having to destroy Hamas and the unwillingness of other countries to take refugees is terrible for hapless civilians.

>>Gibbon+qs1
> Problem is no one will take refugees from Gaza even temporarily.

Problem is history shows "temporary" displacement tend to become permanent displacement (AKA Ethnic cleansing) under the current settler-apartheid regime ruling Israel, so other countries understandably refrain to abet ethnic cleansing.

>>Gibbon+qs1
> Problem is no one will take refugees from Gaza even temporarily. If countries would the death toll would be much less.

Why should other countries bear the burden and costs for a problem that is overwhelmingly a consequence of the actions of the Israeli state in general, and the current far-right government in particular?

>>Qem+1J1
I agree the worst thing that could happen is displaced Palestinians from Gaza refusing to go back to where other people have decided they have to live because otherwise it'd be ethnic cleansing.

>>voisin+(OP)
You're right. It's incomprehensible. In such a situation I can recommend resolving the impasse by broadening what you consider to be the possibly solution space. More specifically, consider the possibility that what you think is happening is not an accurate reflection of what is actually happening.