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Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

submitted by public+(OP) on 2024-01-03 18:53:57 | 355 points 372 comments
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Hello HN,

Does anyone have experience getting back into tech/startups post-felony?

I have been looking for work since I was released for an assault charge in November 2022.

Previously I worked in Information Security as a SecOps Eng, most recently at Tinder. Between lack of recent job experience, and my record, I have been through a series of offer reneges, recruiters ghosting me, or going into HR resume black holes.

I am eager to get back into tech and feel like my old self adding value to a great team/org.

Anyone have leads on companies that are open to taking chances on good candidates with less than sparkling backgrounds?

NOTE: My offense was not computer/finance/fraud/selling drugs/physical violence/based at all.

Here is my linkedin:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/saunderscaleb/


NOTE: showing posts with links only show all posts
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3. ceejay+n4[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-03 19:08:58
>>VirusN+A3
> Assault charges but not physical violence?

Physical violence is battery.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault_and_battery

"Assault refers to the wrong act of causing someone to reasonably fear imminent harm. This means that the fear must be something a reasonable person would foresee as threatening to them. Battery refers to the actual wrong act of physically harming someone."

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5. fr0sty+A4[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-03 19:09:39
>>VirusN+A3
> Assault charges but not physical violence? What in the world?

"The legal definition of assault is an intentional act that gives another person reasonable fear that they'll be physically harmed or offensively touched. No physical contact or injury has to actually occur, but the accused person must have intentionally acted in a way to cause that fear."

https://vindicatelaw.com/assault-vs-battery-are-they-the-sam...

29. laural+lc[view] [source] 2024-01-03 19:45:54
>>public+(OP)
Have you contacted https://www.nextchapterproject.org/?

They do training and placements aimed at getting formerly incarcerated people into tech roles. I don't know if they work with folks like you with experience already but I'd say it's worth a try.

I used to work at Slack, which founded this program.

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32. local_+Yc[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-03 19:48:32
>>edgyqu+Eb
Would recommend verifying their charges yourself, people tell you this so you don't go peeking around. It's often a cover for a significantly more serious act.

Look on the registry yourself - you won't see anyone on there for peeing in public: https://www.nsopw.gov/

48. realmi+Hg[view] [source] 2024-01-03 20:06:03
>>public+(OP)
I do a lot of non profit work with the formerly incarcerated. Here are some resources I hope helps you out:

https://jailstojobs.org/second-chance-employers-network/

https://www.centerforworkforceinclusion.org/our-work/formerl...

---

Not sure if you have linkedin or anything but I'd like to stay connected

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51. public+Uh[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-03 20:13:03
>>realmi+Hg
https://www.linkedin.com/in/saunderscaleb/
53. public+ai[view] [source] 2024-01-03 20:14:17
>>public+(OP)
My linkedin if anyone has career opportunities or wants to talk:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/saunderscaleb/

59. dang+Pj[view] [source] 2024-01-03 20:21:37
>>public+(OP)
There used to be a YC startup dedicated to this, which unfortunately no longer exists. I don't know the backstory on that, but I do remember that there was quite a large Launch HN thread:

Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records - >>14911467 - Aug 2017 (506 comments)

I link it here in case there might still be useful information or tips in those comments. If there are other related threads, we can list them here too.

Edit: also this (via jph's comment below):

Tell HN: I'm Afraid We're Shutting Down - >>31598978 - June 2022 (353 comments)

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64. milksh+2n[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-03 20:37:20
>>milksh+I5
for the haters downvoting: https://checkr.com/company/mission
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87. mkl+9v[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-03 21:12:39
>>wolver+ks
Yes. https://quinnanlaw.com/criminal-defense/assault-versus-batte...
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102. birdma+cD[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-03 22:03:41
>>VirusN+A3
>>38858468 They mention here some more info.
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104. thauma+sD[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-03 22:04:59
>>local_+xc
> I raped a girl, and despite the incredibly high burden of proof in that charge I was convicted

What burden of proof?

This is a crime where you can be accused of having committed it several years in the past, with no supporting evidence of any kind, and convicted for no other reason than that you give someone a "rapist" vibe.

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedeta...

116. Seattl+uG[view] [source] 2024-01-03 22:26:52
>>public+(OP)
There's a great program for currently and recently released incarcerated: https://www.prisonscholars.org/what-we-do/our-work-impact/
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135. ericpa+hL[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-03 23:01:47
>>kypro+rK
The issue with this is that, if you ban employers from getting signal about employees, they will attempt to infer the same information by other means. This inference can often be unfairly biased. See related issues with racial discrimination caused by Ban the Box initiatives: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/upshot/ban-the-box-an-eff...
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153. justso+QP[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-03 23:39:04
>>felon_+Ed
I do not have any employment at this point to risk with my identity, and given that I have lost it over and over again from people who did not know about my past finding out about it and objecting to it enough to cost me my job, it's easy for me to be open at this point. what have I got to lose?

I'm an ancient linkedin account, because I made it way back when linkedin first came out. it's an easy one to remember, lol.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/werewolf/

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156. eli+GQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-03 23:45:55
>>justso+aN
Maybe you need a better lawyer. Good lawyer should talk to you for free to explain the process and see if you have a case worth pursuing.

Also this is definitely free and they can decide to bring a lawsuit on your behalf https://calcivilrights.ca.gov/complaintprocess/?content=file...

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172. jph+2V[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-04 00:24:50
>>dang+Pj
Thanks @dang. 70 Million Jobs CEO Richard Bronson wrote a moving update for HN here: >>31598978
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203. jeffff+v11[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-04 01:24:03
>>dropta+LP
Speaking of Indeed, the first employee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Lamprecht) was a felon and a great engineer
223. nytesk+661[view] [source] 2024-01-04 02:17:41
>>public+(OP)
There is hope that things will change for folks like you who have “paid your debt”, this was on NPR today. It sounds like your best bet is to be incarcerated adjacent jobs, maybe the Innocence project has tech work? Something like that to build recent relevant experience.

https://www.marketplace.org/shows/marketplace/

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224. Hideou+761[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-04 02:17:42
>>yieldc+KM
Black people commit and are convicted of commiting significantly crime more than white people per capita. Whether this is due to racism, economics, or whatever is irrelevant, but when you can't check specifically for criminal records race becomes an excellent proxy. ~4% of white men will go to jail at some point in their life vs about 28% of black men. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/Llgsfp.pdf

That said, sex is also an excellent proxy since men commit far more crime than women. I wonder if women are more likely to get hired when criminal background checks are forbidden?

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227. halost+w61[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-04 02:21:41
>>RickJW+G01
[citation required]

"Police violence calls for measures beyond de-escalation training": https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/police-violence-c... — "The police department in Camden, N.J., for example, was disbanded and rebuilt with a new vision in 2013."

"What the data say about police brutality and racial bias — and which reforms might work": https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z

"More Than Half of Police Killings Are Mislabeled, New Study Says": https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/us/police-killings-underc... — Researchers comparing information from death certificates with data from organizations that track police killings in the United States identified a startling discrepancy

"17,000 Killings by Police Have Gone Uncounted Since 1980": https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/how-many... — There have been twice as many deaths at the hands of cops than the federal government has reported, top medical journal finds

Search-fu is failing me, but ISTR there are studies with data indicating that when police are called for non-violent situations, there is a high chance (> 50%) of the aggressiveness of the cops making the situation violent, especially if disadvantaged populations (ethnic or gender minorities) are involved. This is especially true for property crimes (there was a rather visible case of someone murdered by a now former police officer — on camera no less — because he was accused of using a counterfeit $20 bill for a pack of cigarettes, perhaps you remember it?)

Remember, the police do not exist to prevent violence. Most of the time, they’re not even intended to fully and properly investigate violence perpetrated against others. No, they are there mostly to (poorly) investigate property crimes against the ownership class. That they occasionally manage to perform good investigations doesn't really help with the times that they make things worse, don't do anything, or make cases up from whole cloth (perhaps you’ve heard of the police misconduct in the Central Park 5 case, or do you just believe the cops all the time).

242. netaus+T81[view] [source] 2024-01-04 02:54:15
>>public+(OP)
As far as I'm aware, the state of play in tech is far more welcoming to formerly incarcerated people than this thread would imply. Justice Through Code at Columbia University is designed to place formerly incarcerated and criminal legal system-involved individuals in tech roles, and has had a lot of success placing its alumni at big tech companies [1]. And this is largely for entry-level tech workers.

Checkr is a commonly used background-check tool, especially in tech, that allows for those with criminal histories to provide context for what's on their record [2], I'm curious if you've encountered it specifically.

To your post about being ghosted, that seems unfortunately to be a common theme in this period of staff contraction that may not be limited to those with criminal records [3], but reneged offers is a bummer, I'm sorry that's happened to you. There's a theme of "owning the narrative" among some formerly incarcerated people that may be worth considering.

Last, a useful resource on humanizing language for those of us without criminal justice histories [5].

[1] https://centerforjustice.columbia.edu/justicethroughcode

[2] https://checkr.com/

[3] https://medium.com/@k0ryk/everyones-getting-ghosted-dbf0fbaf...

[4] https://fortunesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/final-...

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250. xwolfi+Ma1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-04 03:22:26
>>rdiddl+qS
Even funnier is that there is no Social Credit System in China, not the way you think there is. There is no record of small offences by the billion and a half Chinese, we're barely even able to maintain proper records in general, let alone useless fluff like a score for each citizen.

I invite you to read this: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-sys...

I quote: "Contrary to common belief, the cities mainly target companies, not individuals. Nonetheless, legal representatives of a violating company are also included in the blacklists to prevent reoffending elsewhere or under a different company. Nationally, about 75 percent of entities targeted by the system end up on blacklists because of court orders they have ignored—the so-called judgment defaulters. The remaining companies are typically collared for severe marketplace violations—for instance, for food safety infringements, environmental damage, or wage arrears. But much of these cities’ day-to-day use of the SCS is banal thanks to the system’s fragmentation and inflation of results."

The gist of it is that it was a grading system for businesses, to distinguish the bad payers, often bankrupts people restarting business over and over. This is ofc not great because we would need a "start over" mindset like in the US, but stop reading buzzfeed-like news about this thing, it's a bit cringe.

We are oppressed maybe, but not THAT good at it. Most of the censorship in China is self inflicted and networked, from the bottom, think "shhh don't say that you'll be in trouble" or "I prefer not to answer that question, wink wink". No need for complicated expensive systems diverting taxpayer money away from the pockets of our dear leaders, when a simple 2-hour interview of one person at the police station can silence an entire social graph of hundreds of people for months :)

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268. 0xDEAD+oj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-04 04:47:41
>>infamo+6R
according to [0] the government collects fingerprints from asylum seekers. huge surprise, i know. this probably renders your "idea" moot.

[0] https://help.asylumadvocacy.org/faqs-biometrics/

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276. btilly+it1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-04 06:21:17
>>busyan+2N
I indirectly know someone who fits this description. (Friend of a friend, wouldn't be able to track down.)

Was part of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Chanology, got caught, went to jail. Yeah, super-illegal. But was it immoral?

If you don't know anything about the shady stuff that Scientology did, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QsCrFANMzc is a great video to start with.

291. plondo+6F1[view] [source] 2024-01-04 08:12:43
>>public+(OP)
This might be a good place to mention the Columbia Center for Justice which offers Justice Through Code, a bootcamp for the previously incarcerated. Someone I mentored there last year has successfully found work. I’d be happy to share more details through email.

https://centerforjustice.columbia.edu/justicethroughcode

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293. HenryB+YG1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-04 08:33:38
>>nope00+9f
> I do NOT recommend being upfront

I re-binged "Last Week Tonight" a month ago. There is an episode on the prison system in the USA and the obstacles people face upon release. I remember one case where the person wrote on his job application as employed by the "State of <insert state>" while he was in prison. (it must be this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pz3syET3DY).

I haven't been convicted of any crimes, so I don't have own experience. From people I know, they continued working in tech as contractors/freelancers, but for small fry (as big banks will be very thorough on your background (criminal/credit scoring) checks).

Doing small gigs for small companies where you don't handle personal/sensitive data can give you enough time to (as the parent suggests) have this 'forgotten'.

Would you consider moving to another country?

298. tomash+fL1[view] [source] 2024-01-04 09:14:47
>>public+(OP)
Norway's most famous criminal became a software developer.

https://www-kode24-no.translate.goog/artikkel/david-toska-ko...

306. ozzyda+ER1[view] [source] 2024-01-04 10:07:31
>>public+(OP)
Have you looked at Next Chapter at all? I know several folks who have come through and have amazing careers at tech firms: https://www.nextchapterproject.org/
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318. aghast+rZ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-04 11:29:03
>>HenryB+YG1
When you say "big banks" you're actually crossing several regulatory domains. But as an example, here's the FINRA page on what they won't allow: https://www.finra.org/rules-guidance/guidance/eligibility-re...

FINRA (Financial Industry Regulatory Authority) is the public face of the USA's "Securities and Exchange Commission". They write the rulebook on who gets to work in the industry (stockbrokers, investment bankers, and the like).

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331. voxic1+Cw2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-04 15:00:33
>>justso+gO
You don't need to sue, you should file a complaint with your states department of labor or whomever is charged with enforcing your states labor laws, they will sue for you if they think you have a case. Also in every state I have seen with a similar law the law specifically says you are allowed to lie if you are asked that question anyways and the employer is not allowed to run a background check on you before they offer you the job so your lie cannot be discovered before the job offer is made (and after its made your lie cannot be used against you and the offer cannot be rescinded without a written evaluation that explains why the specifics in your background check make you incompatible with the specific job you were offered). So I would just lie about it and if you don't get the job or the offer gets unfairly rescinded then report it to your department of labor.

Guidance for New York City which is a locality with such a law:

> Job applications cannot have questions about criminal records and cannot ask you to authorize a background check. Employers cannot ask you questions about your criminal record. If you are asked about your record, your answer cannot be used against you. Employers cannot run a background check on you until after a conditional offer of employment.

> Once an employer offers you a job, they can ask about and consider your criminal record ...an employer can decide to not hire you for one of two reasons: 1. because a direct relationship exists between your conviction and the job you want; or 2. because your conviction history creates an unreasonable risk to people or property. The employer must send you its reasoning in writing, along with the background check it used.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/media/fair-chance-employees.pa...

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338. justso+AG2[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-04 15:49:55
>>phpist+LS1
it all boils down to this: does more time make people offend less? does simply adding more time reduce recidivism rates? no, it does not.

https://knowablemagazine.org/content/article/society/2022/re...

"In 2015, for example, an analysis by Swiss researchers looked at 14 studies that compared what happened when criminals were put behind bars to what happened when they were given some other sentence, such as probation or electronic monitoring, that allowed them to stay out of jail or prison. The researchers found that crime rates were just as high for people who’d spent time behind bars as for those who hadn’t."

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371. smsm42+Hea[view] [source] [discussion] 2024-01-07 01:25:50
>>CodeSg+f02
> The idea that drug use is a victimless crime is patently false

What about alcohol use then? Smoking? Buying high risk stocks, options and NFTs? Investing in high-risk startups? Working for a high-risk startups? Spending 100 hours per week on work and neglecting one's family? Any of these could potentially lead to very sad consequences for not only the individual involved but for the people close to them. But once you step on this road, it can lead you to a very weird places if you're not careful. Or you may throw the consistency out of the window and just say "but this is different!" - but then I'd welcome you to explain how exactly it's different.

> but it quickly devolves from there.

This is a so called "gateway" theory, and there are many indications it is false. For example: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB6010.html

I suspect that with further legalization and de-stigmatization of marijuana use, the link would become even weaker, because most users won't devolve anywhere - as most people who drink a can of beer on a weekend do not become raging alcoholics - and the cases where a person is driven to drug use by some problems not produced (though also not solved but frequently worsened) by drugs would be recognized as such instead of blaming the evil weed for everything. (NB: not a user myself, never did, never planning to)

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