zlacker

I see, the narrative switched form “cat’s out of the bag” to “genie’s out of the bottle”. Regardless, no one wants to ban llms. We just want the theft to stop.

>>gumbal+(OP)
There is no theft. Hyperbole won't get you taken seriously, use correct terminology.

>>gumbal+(OP)
it's not theft

>>gumbal+(OP)

    Copying is not theft.
    Stealing a thing leaves one less left
    Copying it makes one thing more;
    that’s what copying’s for.

>>Captai+vx

   My code was AGPL.
   OpenAI can go to h..l

(Footnote: I like your poem. It conveys the concept much better than anywhere I'd ever seen before)

>>gagany+U2
There is no correct terminology. My life became a lot easier when I realized that language changes meaning not just across different languages, but words take on subtly or significantly different meanings based on culture and dialect.

A lot of red-blue state misunderstandings are based on that, as are ones across US racial subgroups. Ditto for lawyer-engineer conversations.

"Theft" has pretty different meanings depending on whom you're speaking to. Legal jargon here is quite different from business, which can be quite different from popular. That's okay!

>>Captai+vx
Quite the hill to die on. But hear me on this: why doesnt openai allow training using its data? Or why doesnt microsoft train against windows’ source code (not that it would be of quality)? Or why can’t we just copy whatever movie and music we want through whatever protocol we want? Is it because your bosses know that copying without approval is theft?

>>blagie+Gd1
Thanks, but it's not my poem! You can find it here: https://blog.ninapaley.com/2009/12/15/minute-meme-1-copying-...

>>gumbal+4v1
It's not quite the hill to die on. There are (at least) two definitions of "theft" and "stealing" in common use:

1) I take something away from you. You have less of it as a result. Copying is not theft.

2) I deprive you of something, such as exclusive use of your land (e.g. by trespassing) or failing to follow through on a contract. Copying is theft.

Both of those are used by different communities, who both become angry at the other.

This is a semantic argument. Most members of both groups believe that there are times when copying is wrong, and are split on when that is.

However, to group #1, "stealing" and "theft" is a highly offensive term. It's much like saying "You raped me up the ___ when you didn't pay my contractor bill on time" or other hyperboles. Not paying my bill was wrong, but it also wasn't rape. It devalues rape, insults you, and is imprecise. You should use the precise "copyright violation" which describes exactly what happened.

To group #2, NOT calling it theft is offensive, since it devalues the costs to businesses and creators of copyright violations. Whether you agree with them or not, they have certain rights under the law, and picking-and-choosing which laws to follow is wrong (especially when it's self-serving).

Because the two groups mean different things by the same words, they can never hold a rational conversation with each other, and become offended when they hear the other group speak. It's how we polarize. It's unfortunate, since there's an important discussion to be had about the limits and enforcement of copyright and patents, which really should start with the copyright clause in the constitution, and when it helps versus impedes progress and economic growth. That's a discussion possible to have analytically and rationally.

>>Captai+ii2
I think it became yours when you copied it :)