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1. desire+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-12-27 14:42:01
This is just rent seeking from dying media instead of working on creating something new in my view.

AI indeed is reading and using material sa a source, but is deriving results based on that material. I think this should be allowed, but now it is a fight who has better paid politicians pretty much.

I am open to hear other thoughts.

replies(1): >>ethanb+03
2. ethanb+03[view] [source] 2023-12-27 14:57:53
>>desire+(OP)
Here’s another thought: It’s good that there are real incentives to produce original content. Especially investigative journalism which is an extremely tough business financially — even without LLMs — but with lots of social value.

It would be silly to totally destroy the incentive to produce new technologies like LLMs, but so wouldn’t it be silly to destroy the incentive to produce original, high-quality content either for human or LLM consumption.

FWIW the LLMs are obviously the ones rent-seeking here, if you’re trying to use the term for its actual meaning instead of just “charge a subscription for something I don’t want to pay for.”

replies(2): >>Zpalmt+w6 >>mrweas+j7
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3. Zpalmt+w6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-27 15:15:53
>>ethanb+03
How are the LLMs rent seeking? they are clearly providing value that people want to pay for..
replies(2): >>ethanb+K7 >>mrweas+a8
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4. mrweas+j7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-27 15:19:57
>>ethanb+03
The whole idea of "a dying media" is pretty scary to me. It indicates that some people place no value in journalism. To be fair, there are a huge number of newspapers who also place little to no value in journalism. I have a number of local papers who will report on celebrity gossip, but it's all auto-translate from somewhere and just posted without questioning, so you end up with random "news" about a person who is completely unknown in the country.

Real, and especially investigative, journalism is extremely expensive and it's not something modern AI is even remotely capable to doing. It might be able to help and make it cheaper, but you can't replace newspapers with ChatGPT and expect to get anything but random gossip and rehashed press releases. I do wonder why the New York Times believe you can.

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5. ethanb+K7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-27 15:23:30
>>Zpalmt+w6
This has to be one of the most abused terms on this website.

“People are willing to pay for it” is not even relevant to the question of whether it’s rent-seeking. Rent-seeking has to do with capturing unearned wealth, i.e. taking someone else’s work and profiting from it.

There is some portion of OAI’s (et al.) value that they themselves produce. There is another portion that is totally derivative of the data — other people’s work — they have trained on for free. A simple thought experiment can tell you to what degree OAI et al are “rent-seekers.”

Imagine a world where they had to enter into mutual agreements in order to train on that data. How much would the AI companies be worth? Not quite zero, but fairly close (Andreessen pretty much stated this IIRC). How much would the data producers be worth? The exact same amount or more.

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6. mrweas+a8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-27 15:26:31
>>Zpalmt+w6
The LLMs don't create new content, they can only rehash existing content (in term news), which they then don't pay for... It's not really the definition of rent seeking though, they do provide some value and mostly without manipulation, not deliberate anyway. LLM also aren't harmful as such, they can be, if we use them wrong, but that's not really the fault of the technology.

I do find is a bit dishonest when they charge for their services, but don't wish to pay the people who's work the models are based on. Why should I pay to use ChatGPT, if they won't pay to use my blog posts?

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