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[parent] [thread] 5 comments
1. wazoox+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-12-11 21:16:20
You're taking it backward. You must not kill children. Everything else flows from this point. If your "solution" implies to kill children, it's not a solution, it's not defensible, it's not to be debated. Period. Else you're just as bad (or worse) as the other side. If you're not a fascistic fanatic (like the other side), then don't call for murder and crime (like the other side). Simple, uh?

In war there can be no justice. Now consider what is more just: not killing perpetrators, or killing innocents? Obviously, not killing is preferable. As Socrates said 2400 years ago, it's worse to commit injustice than to suffer it.

If you want an intelligent commentary on the current situation, please listen to Yuval Noah Harari on Sam Harris' podcast about this.

replies(1): >>kaba0+B4
2. kaba0+B4[view] [source] 2023-12-11 21:38:57
>>wazoox+(OP)
So what is your solution? Not doing anything is always the easy way, but it’s not a way out of most problems. Life is not a zero-sum game — in most situations there is no zero-cost decision.
replies(1): >>wazoox+i75
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3. wazoox+i75[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-13 10:24:09
>>kaba0+B4
There is a general human bias to do something, without considering if doing nothing could be better.

Israeli people must jail Netanyahu and his gang and negociate seriously for a two-states solution. There is no other way out. Military retaliation has exactly zero role to play here. It only creates more hatred and more Hamas militants to come.

https://www.slowboring.com/p/the-two-state-solution-is-still...

replies(1): >>gryzzl+Oo6
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4. gryzzl+Oo6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-13 16:56:52
>>wazoox+i75
cool, most reasonable people in Israel (or Israel sympathisers) would be happy to see Netanyahu in jail, and much more so after October 7.

however, jailing Netanyahu and some of his buddies (I’d for sure also put Smotrich and Ben-Gvir in jail, but there are so many more), wouldn’t stop the rocket fire from Gaza – so what is to be done about the rocket fire and infiltration attempts (and, unfortunately, we know now that "iron dome" + "high tech fencing" is not the answer).

So what a civilised country that values human life (especially of its own citizens) should do? What country in the world wouldn’t be running a military action against the rocket launching, hostage capturing, blood thirsty group financed by oil money?

replies(1): >>wazoox+eQ7
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5. wazoox+eQ7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-13 23:31:15
>>gryzzl+Oo6
> So what a civilised country that values human life (especially of its own citizens) should do?

Not bombing people (killing some of the hostages doing so). Make a serious offer for peace. Nothing serious has been done since Rabin's assassination. Both Barak and Olmert's tries were ham-handed, at a time when both Barak and Olmert were about to be ousted from power.

Can't you understand that violence won't solve anything at all? Retaliation won't resuscitate any of the dead. "Eye for an eye" will only make everyone blind in the end.

If Israel want to get back its lost moral up-hand, it has to offer peace, for real. Nothing else will do. If Israelis are serious about being better than the opposing side, than they have to do better than the opposing side, not worse.

replies(1): >>gryzzl+pkg
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6. gryzzl+pkg[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-16 22:29:35
>>wazoox+eQ7
you are delusional if you think you can offer "real peace" to people who behead and torture, and chant "death to you". this is not an option, and is not an option for anyone seriously discussing the subject. I asked you what to do about rocket launches, daily ones, that kill people. Peace process can’t occur out of nowhere, by just extending a hand.
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