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1. seydor+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-12-08 20:20:01
I think the behavior of the EU is more problematic TBH. Ursula VdL went heavily pro-israel the first day kind of giving carte blanche to israel for the following days

This situation is not a good look for western response in general. The world is watching. Reminder that Srebrenica was 8000 deaths, but 17100 palestinians are justified losses.

replies(2): >>mrtksn+Q9 >>Pxtl+Da
2. mrtksn+Q9[view] [source] 2023-12-08 21:03:48
>>seydor+(OP)
She probably destroyed her career with this, since acted way beyond her limits. I still wonder, was she overcompensating due to her being German?

It's very normal for EU to be pro-Israel, that's EU's official position and IMHO it's the correct one but EU's position is also pro-Two states solution and EU has significant humanitarian missions and political support for many of the Palestinian demands. Some EU countries are also very sympathetic towards the Palestinian cause and some countries which have huge importance for EU, like Turkey, the issue is very emotional.

Very wrong of Vdl to act as if EU is all-in for the Zionist aspirations. As EU Commission president, should have strongly condemned the terrorist attack that Israel suffered and offer any help possible and at the same time she should have pushed for a solution of the root cause(Israeli occupation and extremist antisemitic politics seeking the demise of the Israel - both unacceptable).

Maybe the bigger lesson here is that you should never go all-in on one side of a very complex issue. A kind of an issue where the rights and wrongs are quite evenly distributed and there's no way you end up on the correct side of it. Whoever-pro you are, you lose and she lost.

replies(3): >>toyg+xe >>oezi+xg >>bitcha+mF2
3. Pxtl+Da[view] [source] 2023-12-08 21:07:01
>>seydor+(OP)
Imho, being heavily pro-Israel on the first day was perfectly appropriate. They'd just seen a crapload of innocent civilians butchered, and a bunch of them taken hostage.

Obviously you can still think that Palestinians have legit grievances without supporting massacre, and likewise you can support the Israeli right to defend itself. But at some point the actions of the Israeli military looks less like an effort to root out Hamas and more like ethnic cleansing.

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4. toyg+xe[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-08 21:25:21
>>mrtksn+Q9
VdL has 'destroyed her career' many times over, during her stint. She repeatedly tried to look decisive rather than wise; sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

The truth is that the Commission President continues to be a job in search of political weight and legitimacy, but you can't get that after you are nominated to the post by scheming national rulers - it has to come from the ballot box. She tries hard to compensate for what is a structural weakness that was supposed to be fixed by the spitzenkandidaten process... a process that she blew up herself.

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5. oezi+xg[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-08 21:33:48
>>mrtksn+Q9
> the Zionist aspirations

What has the current conflict to do with Zionist aspirations?

replies(1): >>mrtksn+wh
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6. mrtksn+wh[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-08 21:38:23
>>oezi+xg
Sorry, I'm not going to bite that. Too complex of an issue to go over what happens why.
replies(1): >>oezi+iA
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7. oezi+iA[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-08 23:10:03
>>mrtksn+wh
Yeah, it was just a quip that Zionism is not a good label to attach to what the EU and/or Ursula vdL has declared within this conflict.
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8. bitcha+mF2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-12-09 17:56:35
>>mrtksn+Q9
> It's very normal for EU to be pro-Israel, that's EU's official position and IMHO it's the correct one

Why would supporting ethnic cleansing be a correct position? Can you explain?

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