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1. tedivm+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-20 13:59:54
This was handled so very, very poorly. Frankly it's looking like Microsoft is going to come out of this better than anyone, especially if they end up getting almost 500 new AI staff out of it (staff that already function well as a team).

> In their letter, the OpenAI staff threaten to join Altman at Microsoft. “Microsoft has assured us that there are positions for all OpenAI employees at this new subsidiary should we choose to join," they write.

replies(8): >>paulpa+W3 >>spinni+V4 >>boring+15 >>Bryant+18 >>trinsi+Oa >>tannha+Vb >>mongol+ah >>ulfw+Vi
2. paulpa+W3[view] [source] 2023-11-20 14:11:31
>>tedivm+(OP)
In hindsight firing Sam was a self-destructing gamble by the OpenAI board. Initially it seemed Sam may have committed some inexcusable financial crime but doesn't look so anymore.

Irony is that if a significant portion of OpenAI staff opt to join Microsoft, then Microsoft essentially killed their own $13B investment in OpenAI earlier this year. Better than acquiring for $80B+ I suppose.

replies(6): >>htrp+q5 >>dhruvd+A6 >>techno+v7 >>janeje+79 >>jasode+gb >>banana+Vg
3. spinni+V4[view] [source] 2023-11-20 14:14:56
>>tedivm+(OP)
> Microsoft is going to come out of this better than anyone

Exactly. I'm curious about how much of this was planned vs emergent. I doubt it was all planned: it would take an extraordinary mind to foresee all the possible twists.

Equally, it's not entirely unpredictable. MS is the easiest to read: their moves to date have been really clear in wanting to be the primary commercial beneficiary of OAI's work.

OAI itself is less transpararent from the outside. There's a tension between the "humanity first" mantra that drove its inception, and the increasingly "commercial exploitation first" line that Altman was evidently driving.

As things stand, the outcome is pretty clear: if the choice was between humanity and commercial gain, the latter appears to have won.

replies(3): >>jerf+p7 >>sharem+Bb >>playin+Cy
4. boring+15[view] [source] 2023-11-20 14:15:15
>>tedivm+(OP)
I think the board needs to come clean on why they fired Sam Altman if they are going to weather this storm.
replies(2): >>Kye+ob >>jjfooo+rn
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5. htrp+q5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 14:16:20
>>paulpa+W3
Msft/Amazon/Google would light 13 billion on fire to acquire OpenAI in a heartbeat.

(but also a good chunk of the 13bn was pre-committed Azure compute credits, which kind of flow back to the company anyway).

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6. dhruvd+A6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 14:20:12
>>paulpa+W3
They acquired Activision for 69B recently.

While Activision makes much more money I imagine, acquiring a whole division of productive, _loyal_ staffers that work well together on something as important as AI is cheap for 13B.

Some background: https://sl.bing.net/dEMu3xBWZDE

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7. jerf+p7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 14:22:50
>>spinni+V4
"I doubt it was all planned: it would take an extraordinary mind to foresee all the possible twists."

From our outsider, uninformed perspective, yes. But if you know more sometimes these things become completely plannable.

I'm not saying this is the actual explanation because it probably isn't. But suppose OpenAI was facing bankruptcy, but they weren't telling anyone and nobody external knew. This allows more complicated planning for various contingencies by the people that know because they know they can exclude a lot of possibilities from their planning, meaning it's a simpler situation for them than meets the (external) eye.

Perhaps ironically, the more complicated these gyrations become, the more convinced I become there's probably a simple explanation. But it's one that is being hidden, and people don't generally hide things for no reason. I don't know what it is. I don't even know what category of thing it is. I haven't even been closely following the HN coverage, honestly. But it's probably unflattering to somebody.

(Included in that relatively simple explanation would be some sort of coup attempt that has subsequently failed. Those things happen. I'm not saying whatever plan is being enacted is going off without a hitch. I'm just saying there may well be an internal explanation that is still much simpler than the external gyrations would suggest.)

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8. techno+v7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 14:23:07
>>paulpa+W3
There's acquihires and then I guess there's acquifishing where you just gut the company you're after like a fish and hire away everyone without bothering to buy the company. There's probably a better portmanteau. I seriously doubt Microsoft is going to make people whole by granting equivalent RSUs, so you have to wonder what else is going on that so many seem ready to just up and leave some very large potential paydays.
replies(2): >>Kye+Ra >>WiseWe+ni
9. Bryant+18[view] [source] 2023-11-20 14:24:53
>>tedivm+(OP)
“Employees” probably means “engineers” in this case. Which is a wide majority of OpenAI staff, I’m sure.
replies(1): >>tedivm+ea
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10. janeje+79[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 14:28:28
>>paulpa+W3
If the change in $MSFT pre-open market cap (which has given up its gains at the time of writing, but still) of hundreds of billions of dollars is anything to go by, shareholders probably see this as spending a dime to get a dollar.
replies(1): >>unoti+oI1
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11. tedivm+ea[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 14:32:23
>>Bryant+18
I'm assuming it's a combination of researchers, data scientists, mlops engineers, and developers. There are a lot of different areas of expertise that come into building these models.
12. trinsi+Oa[view] [source] 2023-11-20 14:34:29
>>tedivm+(OP)
> Frankly it's looking like Microsoft is going to come out of this better than anyone

Sounds like that's what someone wants and is trying to obfuscate what's going on behind the scenes.

If Windows 11 shows us anything about Microsoft's monopolistic behavior, having them be the ring of power for LMM's makes the future of humanity look very bleak.

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13. Kye+Ra[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 14:34:40
>>techno+v7
How about: acquimire
replies(1): >>gryn+Eh
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14. jasode+gb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 14:36:25
>>paulpa+W3
>, then Microsoft essentially killed their own $13B investment in OpenAI earlier this year.

For investment deals of that magnitude, Microsoft probably did not literally wire all $13 billion to OpenAI's bank account the day the deal was announced.

More likely that the $10b to $13 headline-grabbing number is a total estimated figure that represents a sum of future incremental investments (and Azure usage credits, etc) based on agreed performance milestones from OpenAI.

So, if OpenAI doesn't achieve certain milestones (which can be more difficult if a bunch of their employees defect and follow Sam & Greg out the door) ... then Microsoft doesn't really "lose $10b".

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15. Kye+ob[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 14:37:14
>>boring+15
They might not be able to if the legal department is involved. Both in the case of maybe-pending legal issues, and because even rich people get employment protections that make companies wary about giving reasons.
replies(1): >>roflye+bm
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16. sharem+Bb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 14:37:58
>>spinni+V4
"it would take an extraordinary mind to foresee all the possible twists."

How far along were they on GPT-5?

17. tannha+Vb[view] [source] 2023-11-20 14:39:04
>>tedivm+(OP)
> it's looking like Microsoft is going to come out of this better than anyon

Didn't follow this closely, but isn't that implicitly what an ex-CEO could have possibly been accused off ie. not acting in the company's best interest but someone else's? Not unprecedented either eg. the case of Nokia/Elop.

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18. banana+Vg[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 15:01:57
>>paulpa+W3
> In hindsight firing Sam was a self-destructing gamble by the OpenAI board

surely the really self-destructive gamble was hiring him? he's a venture capitalist with weird beliefs about AI and privacy, why would it be a good idea to put him in charge of a notional non-profit that was trying to safely advance the start of the art in artificial intelligence?

19. mongol+ah[view] [source] 2023-11-20 15:03:25
>>tedivm+(OP)
But is the door open to everyone of the 500 staff? That is a lot, and Microsoft may not need them all.
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20. gryn+Eh[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 15:06:20
>>Kye+Ra
one thing for sure this is one hell of a quagmire /s
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21. WiseWe+ni[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 15:10:41
>>techno+v7
I feel like that's giving them too much credit; this is more of a flukuisition. Being in the right place at the right time when your acquisition target implodes.
22. ulfw+Vi[view] [source] 2023-11-20 15:14:33
>>tedivm+(OP)
That's because they're the only adult in the room and mature company with mature management. Boring, I know. But sometimes experience actually pays off.
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23. roflye+bm[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 15:36:56
>>Kye+ob
"Even rich people?" - especially rich people, as they are the ones who can afford to use laws to protect themselves.
replies(1): >>Kye+5u
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24. jjfooo+rn[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 15:46:03
>>boring+15
Altman is already gone, if they fired him without a good reason they are already toast
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25. Kye+5u[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 16:23:32
>>roflye+bm
I said nothing contrary to this. I'm not sure what your goal is with this comment. If anything is implied in "even rich people," it's contempt for them, so I'm clearly on the pro-making legal protections more accessible side.

Pick a different target and move on.

replies(1): >>roflye+Fv
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26. roflye+Fv[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 16:31:33
>>Kye+5u
Using your same rhetoric and attitude: please outline exactly what language I used that was so offensive to you.
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27. playin+Cy[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 16:45:43
>>spinni+V4
> it would take an extraordinary mind

They could've asked ChatGPT for hints.

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28. unoti+oI1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 21:06:33
>>janeje+79
Awesome point. Microsoft's market cap today went up to 2.8 trillion, up 44.68 billion today.
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