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1. upward+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-20 09:31:46
I think it's a misconception that Microsoft has less morals. Their Chief Scientific Officer, Dr. Eric Horvitz, was one of the key people behind America's 2022 nuclear weapons policy update which states that we will always maintain a human in the loop for nuclear weapons employment. (i.e., systems like WOPR are now forbidden under US policy.)

Here is the full excerpt of the part of the 2022 Nuclear Posture Review which was (more or less) authored behind the scenes by Microsoft's very kind and wise CSO:

    We also recognize the risk of unintended nuclear escalation, which can result from accidental or unauthorized use of a nuclear weapon. The United States has extensive protections in place to mitigate this risk. As an example, U.S. intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) are not on “hair trigger” alert. These forces are on day-to-day alert, a posture that contributes to strategic stability. Forces on day-to-day alert are subject to multiple layers of control, and the United States maintains rigorous procedural and technical safeguards to prevent misinformed, accidental, or unauthorized launch. Survivable and redundant sensors provide high confidence that potential attacks will be detected and characterized, enabling policies and procedures that ensure a deliberative process allowing the President sufficient time to gather information and consider courses of action. In the most plausible scenarios that concern policy leaders today, there would be time for full deliberation. For these reasons, while the United States maintains the capability to launch nuclear forces under conditions of an ongoing nuclear attack, it does not rely on a launch-under-attack policy to ensure a credible response. Rather, U.S. nuclear forces are postured to withstand an initial attack. In all cases, the United States will maintain a human “in the loop” for all actions critical to informing and executing decisions by the President to initiate and terminate nuclear weapon employment.
See page 49 of this PDF document: https://media.defense.gov/2022/Oct/27/2003103845/-1/-1/1/202...

Microsoft is also working behind the scenes to help convince China to make a similar declaration, which President Xi is considering. This would reduce the vulnerability of China to being tricked into a nuclear war by fundamentalist terrorists. (See the scenario depicted in the 2019 film The Wolf's Call.)

replies(4): >>lwhi+6 >>belter+c1 >>tibbyd+39 >>ekianj+jg
2. lwhi+6[view] [source] 2023-11-20 09:32:28
>>upward+(OP)
Are we talking about the same Microsoft here??!?

Sheeeeh ...

I grew up with Microsoft in the 80s and 90s .. Microsoft has zero morals.

What you're referring to here is instinct for self preservation.

replies(1): >>upward+Z
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3. upward+Z[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 09:37:45
>>lwhi+6
You're certainly right they were pretty evil back then. I think they became ethical at about the same time Bill Gates did. Even though this involved him stepping back to start the Gates Foundation, he was still a board member at Microsoft for a number of years, and I think helped guide its transition.

As perhaps a better example, Microsoft (including Azure) has been carbon-neutral since 2012:

https://unfccc.int/climate-action/un-global-climate-action-a....

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/global-infrastructure/

https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2012/05/08/making-carbon-ne...

replies(3): >>b112+N3 >>speede+G5 >>belter+Vc
4. belter+c1[view] [source] 2023-11-20 09:38:57
>>upward+(OP)
Are you seriously arguing for Microsoft morals...On the basis of a totally logical, from a self-preserving prespective, statement on Nuclear Weapons, from a Scientific Advisor with no involvement on the day to day run of their business?

What is next? A statement on Oracle kindness, based on Larry Ellison appreciation of Japanese gardens?

replies(2): >>I-M-S+85 >>selimt+T8
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5. b112+N3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 09:54:04
>>upward+Z
A supervillian can walk by a baby, become overcome with joy, and smile. That doesn't mean his ethics are suddenly correct.

It's almost like you believe Gates is General Butt Naked, where killing babies and eating their brains is all forgiven, because he converted to Christianity, and now helps people.

So?

How does that absolve the faulty ethics of the past?

So please, don't tell me Gates is 'ethical'. What a load of crock!

As for Microsoft, there is no change. Telling me they're carbon neutral is absurd. Carbon credits don't count, and they're doing it to attract clients, and employees... not because they have evolved incredible business ethics.

If they had, their entire desktop experience wouldn't, on a daily basis, fight with you, literally attack you into using their browser. They're literally using the precise same playbook from the turn of the century.

Microsoft takes your money, and then uses you, your desktop, your productivity, as the battleground to fight with competitors. They take your choice away, literally screw you over, instead of providing the absolute best experience you choose, with the product you've bought.

And let's not even get into the pathetic dancing advertisement platform windows is. I swear, we need to legislate this. We need to FORCE all computing platforms to be 100% ad free.

And Microsoft?

They. Are. Evil.

replies(1): >>Frustr+rj
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6. I-M-S+85[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 10:02:06
>>belter+c1
To be fair, corporations as entities have long demonstrated that they are agnostic when it comes to seemingly logical goals such as human self-preservation.
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7. speede+G5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 10:05:40
>>upward+Z
You know that MS been forcing people to use Edge 90s style again right? They started it (again?) as soon their monopoly punishment by EU ended.

Or privacy invasion since Win10. Or using their monopoly power to force anti-consumer changes on hardware (such as TPM or Secure Boot).

As for Bill Gates ethical... you talking about that same Bill Gates that got kicked out by his wife because he insisted in being friends with convicted pedophile?

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8. selimt+T8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 10:28:24
>>belter+c1
Well, there was a Shogunworld part to Westworld.
9. tibbyd+39[view] [source] 2023-11-20 10:29:29
>>upward+(OP)
Or Colossus/Guardian :).
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10. belter+Vc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 10:59:19
>>upward+Z
Bill Gates become ethical? That is on which episode of Star Trek Discovery? The one with the three parallel Universe?

- https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/business/bill-melinda-gat...

- https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a425435...

11. ekianj+jg[view] [source] 2023-11-20 11:22:18
>>upward+(OP)
Thats called whitewashing an evil corp with one anecdote. HN deserves better.
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12. Frustr+rj[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-20 11:40:43
>>b112+N3
Agree, but HN likes to hate on MS so much that it becomes a little blinding to others.

Really, all corporations are evil, and they are all made of humans that look the other way, because everyone needs that pay check to eat.

And on the sliding scale of evil, there are a lot of more evil. Like BP, pharma co, Union Carbide. etc... etc...

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