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1. suziem+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-18 12:02:37
This is Olek Madry and Jakub Pachocki we are talking about. Check out their respective dblps if you don't get it. It's a kind of loss that will be hard to recover from.

In relation to other comments here. There is "coding" and there is "God's spark genius of algorithms" kind of work. This is what made the magic of OpenAI. Believe me, those guys were not "just coding". My bet is that it could be all about some research directions that were "shielded" by Sam.

replies(3): >>belter+W >>RockCo+b4 >>throwa+ra
2. belter+W[view] [source] 2023-11-18 12:10:07
>>suziem+(OP)
If all of that would be enough, there would be a ChatGPT from Google, a long time ago...
replies(3): >>fsloth+Z4 >>jjtheb+ie >>sbroth+Tg
3. RockCo+b4[view] [source] 2023-11-18 12:30:29
>>suziem+(OP)
>My bet is that it could be all about some research directions that were "shielded" by Sam.

As far as I can tell, all three of them are of Polish descent. For all we know they might have decided to resign together even if only one of them had a personal issue with OpenAI's vision. We will find out soon enough whether they will just found their own competing startup, based on OpenAI's "secret sauce" or not.

replies(2): >>slekke+w5 >>m_ke+eu
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4. fsloth+Z4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 12:35:06
>>belter+W
In general Google sucks in creating new consumer offerings. So it's not about resources for sure. I guess it's about synergy, culture, taste and talent.
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5. slekke+w5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 12:39:54
>>RockCo+b4
What does being Polish have to do with it?
replies(1): >>RockCo+T6
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6. RockCo+T6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 12:50:54
>>slekke+w5
You've been focussing on the most irrelevant part of my comment.

Nothing to do with being Polish in particular. Only that there is a connecting element that might help explain why these 3 decided to resign together on the same day.

replies(1): >>lttlrc+Ye
7. throwa+ra[view] [source] 2023-11-18 13:17:05
>>suziem+(OP)
> There is "coding" and there is "God's spark genius of algorithms" kind of work.

I really don't buy that for a second. Most of OpenAI's value compared to any competitor comes from the money they spent hiring humans to trawl through training data.

replies(3): >>elzbar+Ub >>motobo+Me >>ameliu+Ig
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8. elzbar+Ub[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 13:24:40
>>throwa+ra
Not to forget the mind-boggling amount of computing power and the megabucks spent on power bills. If anything, smaller groups and open source seem to get very good results with far less money.
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9. jjtheb+ie[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 13:35:33
>>belter+W
Wasn’t OpenAI populated in part by Google Brain people who left Google’s bs bureaucracy and internal politics?
replies(1): >>suziem+wJ
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10. motobo+Me[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 13:38:15
>>throwa+ra
And their competition didn’t had the same resources?
replies(1): >>suziem+rH
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11. lttlrc+Ye[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 13:39:47
>>RockCo+T6
It's the first sentence which does make it seem important from your perspective, far from irrelevant.
replies(1): >>Jensso+th
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12. ameliu+Ig[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 13:50:34
>>throwa+ra
The God's spark of genius are the transformers which came from Google and are now in the open.
replies(1): >>suziem+6H
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13. sbroth+Tg[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 13:52:09
>>belter+W
Google invented the core technology, and they had an internal version long before ChatGPT was released. I joined when it was already at the "accessible to all employees" stage and it absolutely blew my mind.

They just hadn't -- and still haven't -- figured out how to commercialize it yet. I don't think they'll be the ones to crack that nut either. IMO they are too obsessed with "safety" to release something useful, and also can't reasonably deploy a service like ChatGPT at their scale because the costs are too high.

With OpenAI imploding this whole race just got a lot more interesting though...

replies(2): >>Jensso+yi >>suziem+eJ
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14. Jensso+th[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 13:55:56
>>lttlrc+Ye
All of them being from the same area is relevant. Them being polish is not relevant except to show that they were from the same area.
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15. Jensso+yi[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 14:02:38
>>sbroth+Tg
Yeah, the legal and financials parts of ChatGPT are very questionable. I don't think Google would launch a service that would open them up to so many lawsuits unless it was very profitable, and I doubt ChatGPT is very profitable currently.

Bard was likely not trained on copyrightable data, that makes it safe from lawsuits but also removes most of the usecases people want ChatGPT for.

And it isn't just about lawsuits, since Google need to keep advertisers happy or they would leave like they leave Elon Musk they can't afford to jeapordise that with questionable launches.

replies(2): >>i8comm+nq >>boh+st
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16. i8comm+nq[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 14:44:42
>>Jensso+yi
Why is it legally questionable?
replies(1): >>Jensso+7z
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17. boh+st[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 15:03:44
>>Jensso+yi
It was 100% trained on copyrightable data. You can tell by using it and Google has a history of "ask for forgiveness not permission" when it comes to data mining.
replies(1): >>Jensso+2D
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18. m_ke+eu[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 15:09:51
>>RockCo+b4
I wonder if Wojciech Zaremba will leave as well
replies(1): >>suziem+OJ
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19. Jensso+7z[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 15:40:42
>>i8comm+nq
If it wasn't there wouldn't be lots of lawsuits being filed about it.

https://innovationorigins.com/en/openai-and-googles-bard-acc...

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20. Jensso+2D[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 16:03:02
>>boh+st
> Google has a history of "ask for forgiveness not permission" when it comes to data mining.

For very profitable things. This isn't very profitable, which is why I added that part to my comment. Google has a very good understanding what they get sued for and how much those lawsuits costs, if it is profitable anyway they go ahead.

replies(1): >>boh+2F
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21. boh+2F[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 16:13:57
>>Jensso+2D
After Open AI's proposed share sale it will likely be valued at $80-90 billion. That seems pretty profitable.
replies(1): >>Jensso+aL
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22. suziem+6H[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 16:25:42
>>ameliu+Ig
Look where for example Lukasz Kaiser is now [OpenAI]. Google had a culture issue when it came to "delivering brilliance". It was a bit "you do it as a singleton contributor" or you don't. OpenAI put a number of such brilliant people working together on one goal, silently, for quite some time, and we all see the results.
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23. suziem+rH[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 16:27:42
>>motobo+Me
This is a handful of people we are talking about. The top algorithimic world is incredibly small.

In short, either they didn't or where unable to create a favorable enough environment for this to flourish.

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24. suziem+eJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 16:39:35
>>sbroth+Tg
I remember seeing short stories generated back in 2020 and they were sort of cool but not that great.

Scaling of training was the challenge back then (of course).

Google was already too corporate. Please remember that Sergey Brin and Larry Page were no longer at the steering wheel back then. I have been told that it was also a cultural issue linked to "delivering brilliance". Simplifying: Google promoted tiny teams or individual contributors building things that had to become a massive success quickly. Open AI took a number of hand picked brilliant people and let them work together on a common goal, silently, for quite some time.

Some companies just have an unfair advantage. A certain magic. And OpenAI's magic is at risk right now.

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25. suziem+wJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 16:40:26
>>jjtheb+ie
Totally, most of the Transformers folks ;-)
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26. suziem+OJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 16:42:13
>>m_ke+eu
Yeah... Curious to see how this will unfold.
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27. Jensso+aL[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-18 16:48:44
>>boh+2F
That doesn't come from ChatGPT though, that comes from expectation of much more products in the future and the possibility of them beating Google.
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