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1. peanut+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-16 19:02:42
If you require global connectivity, managing hundreds of carrier APIs, contracts, etc seems like major overhead. Also, there are companies whose only purpose for existing is providing messaging, like Twilio, are they just...not doing this or do the carriers just not play ball? In that case, why would the carriers agree to sell to you at a discount?
replies(1): >>toast0+0b
2. toast0+0b[view] [source] 2023-11-16 19:51:00
>>peanut+(OP)
Aggregators do some of this, and they can negotiate pricing to some degree, but a carrier is unlikely to intentionally give them zero cost traffic, and even if they do, they're not going to pass that through at zero cost.

I ran the engineering side of carrier integrations at WhatsApp. Carriers wanted to sell data plans with special pricing for data with WA and use WA branding in advertising, because it attracted customers that might later convert to a bigger general purpose data plan. As part of that, we would ask for zero rated SMS to their customers for verification. When it was available, it was generally faster and higher success vs sending messages through an aggregator.

We also had some, usually small, carriers approach us asking us to set up direct routes to them for verification, because their customers would not always receive our messages when we sent through an aggregator. Early in my career at WA, we would just send these carriers to our aggregator contacts, and often things would get linked up and then we'd still pay $/message but it would work better. As we got a little bigger and built support for direct routes anyway, it was usually not too hard to set up a direct connection and then there'd be no cost for that carrier. Messing around with IPSEC VPNs and SMPP isn't fun and the GSMA SOAP messaging APIs are way worse, but once you get the first couple implementations done, it becomes cookie cutter (and FB had built way better tools for this, and a 24/7 support team, so I never had to be up, on the phone with telco peeps at 3 am kicking racoon or whatever ipsec daemon we were running until it finally connected)

replies(2): >>hn_thr+mI >>amluto+RA1
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3. hn_thr+mI[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-16 22:32:22
>>toast0+0b
Thanks very much for sharing your experience and detail! This kind of info is what I was looking for and is super helpful.
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4. amluto+RA1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 05:31:16
>>toast0+0b
Can you say what ordinary (non-discounted) pricing was like, per message? At least in the US, most carriers did I and, believe, still do operate free SMTP -> SMS gateways. They worked okay, although they resulted in oddly formatted messages.
replies(1): >>toast0+6C1
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5. toast0+6C1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 05:43:51
>>amluto+RA1
Twilio has a public price sheet[1], I think they haven't actually updated this one lately, but it's a good representation of what ordinary pricing is like. This is not an endorsement (or non-endorsement) of Twilio, but having a public price sheet makes it easy to link to them.

In general, pricing varies widely by destination (country and sometimes carrier), US and some other places are < $0.01, up to $0.10/message isn't uncommon, and some places are $0.20-$0.30/message. Voice calling was usually mor expensive (Twilio should have a price list somewhere for that too; if you can get 6 or 1 second billing, assume a voice verification call is about 30 seconds, but you might have to pay for a whole minute even if you don't use a whole minute).

Those SMTP -> SMS gateways sometimes work in the US, but they don't work much in other countries, and they're not good enough to rely on if your product requires an SMS during the new user flow. SMS costs are real and it's frustrating, but if it costs too much, you need to use something other than phone numbers for ids; I don't think skirting by with email gateways is going to work. But, if you build dynamic routing, I guess you could try.

Also, you've got the use the right email gateway for the user's carrier, and a carrier lookup is on the order of $0.01, unless you have tons of volume, so for the US, you might as well pay for the SMS.

[1] https://assets.cdn.prod.twilio.com/pricing-csv/SMSPricing.cs...

replies(1): >>amluto+gS2
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6. amluto+gS2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 15:28:14
>>toast0+6C1
I don’t mean what Twilio charges — I mean what the carriers charge to senders who are directly integrated.
replies(1): >>toast0+R83
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7. toast0+R83[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-17 16:37:20
>>amluto+gS2
Oh I see... yeah, WA never went direct unless it was zero cost to us, so I don't know what carriers tend to charge. Managing payment to a foreign telecom would be challenging, managing it to enough carriers so the difference in cost is meaningful would be a major endeavor. SMS aggregation is a business with many providers and a low barrier to entry, so while there are margins, I don't think they're very high. There are some telecom groups that run networks in many countries, and some of those offer SMS aggregation services, and the prices were in the same ballpark as pure aggregators, as I recall, but it's been many years since I saw the price sheets.
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