zlacker

^this.

I don't have anything against personalized ads based on information that I willingly share. If I am following a bunch of groups of kite-surfers, I actually welcome ads for kite-surfing gears and services while browsing those groups.

If I explicitly decide to share my address on my social network profile AND, explicitly authorize the use of this information for targeting, I don't mind, and actually welcome seeing ads for carpet cleaning services from my city, instead of ads from this kind of business located thousands of miles away, WHILE I am using said social network.

But I don't want to browse the local newspaper, and having this targeting information being used outside the explicitly bounded context of that social network.

And above all, I don't want surveillance-style stuff things forced upon me to infer information about me that I never consented to share in the first place.

It is ok to me if I say, I have an interest on X, you (and only you) can show me ads based on that, and I also consent on you (and only you) using my <insert whatever personal info you may think ok> to target ads.

>>elzbar+(OP)
I am curious what widespread legislation on this front is going to cause. Not meaning to defend surveillance capitalism in the slightest, it belongs in the dustbin of history for reasons too numerous to articulate, but merely from the perspective that personalized ads that creep on you were essentially made a load-bearing column of the Internet before anyone knew how creepy they were going to get with it, and now just, every goddamn website out there with even a modicum of traffic has ads. And like, I'm sure the vast majority of people here block ads and I think blocking ads is getting more or more prevalent year over year, but like, they must be being seen by someone. Sites still use them, largely because there isn't a real replacement for a constant trickle revenue stream like them out there seeing wide adoption.

I guess in my ideal world, I would hope that these businesses could pivot back to a dumber, more privacy-friendly mode of advertising? But I wonder if the corpos are willing to give that up, or if they'll just continue trying to squirrel around this and any other laws to the point of absurdity?

>>Toucan+t1
> I am curious what widespread legislation on this front is going to cause

Nothing. More dark patterns to trick people into accepting tracking. Look to how the industry reacted yo GDPR.

> personalized ads that creep on you were essentially made a load-bearing column of the Internet before anyone knew how creepy they were going to get with it

You can have personalized ads without invasive and pervasive tracking

>>elzbar+(OP)
Yeah, it's so much more than most people realize. It's not just visiting websites with tracking pixels either. Like, companies you use will upload your data to facebook. They will take their pool of emails or members of their customer programs and send to facebook to be able to target you. Thus giving facebook more information about you.

When I visit facebooks https://www.facebook.com/off_facebook_activity I see that lots of places have shared my information with facebook..

>>Toucan+t1
Maybe FAANG salaries will fall and teams of phds will have to spend their time on something other than raising ad targeting effectiveness by a fraction of a percent.

>>troupo+E5
> Look to how the industry reacted yo GDPR.

Anecdotal observation from big-ish corps in EU: everyone started trying to look very mindful about what data they ask for in the first place, what gets stored where, what is shared with whom. In some cases, this led to actually being more mindful about those. At least in e-commerce, GDPR worked in the privacy-minded consumer's benefit to some extent, and not quite against anyone.

>>magnus+mc
It was helpful for CA's GDPR-like law for Mozilla to find out about the whole sexual activity debacle. But it certainly didn't go far enough, because who would willingly allow a car company to collect that information? And why did such an outrageous data point not make its way to the public until Mozilla's investigations?

>>Toucan+t1
> I am curious what widespread legislation on this front is going to cause

Everyone will get a prompt that asks them whether they want to consent to personalized advertising or pay $20/month to use the service. Everyone picks the first because nobody outside of HN bubbles and bored EU regulators cares about personalized ads (or actually prefers them).

Then the EU will start claiming that everyone should be able to use Facebook without advertising and without paying for it i.e. for free or for vastly reduced revenue potential. Eventually Zuck will get tired of the EU because visitors from there won't be worth much, and start to degrade or remove service for them entirely. New products and features won't launch there at all, see Threads for a preview of non-coming attractions. HN Euro-posters will assure each other that this is in fact a great victory.

>>nvm0n2+EC
Not having facebook available seems like a pretty great victory.

>>bcrosb+E9
This is the largest damage in my opinion. How many thousands, millions of hours of some of the most brilliant minds of our generations have we dedicated to making the experience of lived daily life worse? Ads are a scourge upon the actual usability and safety of the internet. I understand the current necessity of the economics, it doesn't change the fact that the web without ads is an infinitely more pleasant and self-paced place without all the flashing imagery and psychological subterfuge surrounding every single piece of useful information you could ever find.

This massive wealth of intelligence, drive, ambition, all spent on something as useless as banner ads everyone explicitly tries to ignore or block anyway. It's insane. But money is the primordial force that allows the planet to keep rotating so inevitably someone will dedicate their intelligence to whatever cheap money they come up with. That's fine, that's good. I just imagine all that money could've cured some diseases, built better telescopes, put more powerful technology in the hands of the disadvantaged, maybe even, i dunno, fed some hungry people or something. What the fuck is the metaverse gonna do for anyone besides exploit them for maximum profit driven by distraction

>>nvm0n2+EC
Mastodon.social had revenue (donations) of 326K EUR and operating expenses of 127K EUR in 2022 against roughly 191K users [1]. They have paid moderators to manage the server, and by most measures it's a healthy place. This suggests that the free market cost of social media is 0.6 EUR/year. The price charged to consumers shouldn't be much higher than this.

WhatsApp before it was acquired also demanded an optional donation of 1 USD/year from each person.

That is what people will be willing to pay, and what social media should subsist on.

[1] Annual Report 2022 https://www.patreon.com/file?h=90246790&i=16020862

>>abdull+AO
Mastodon isn't a real social network though because they don't have seventeen layers of middle management and a C-suite raking in billions of dollars, so obviously this is a non-starter solution.

/s if not clear.

>>wholin+xJ
I mean the banner ads are the tip of the iceberg in terms of what millions of hours of all those brilliant minds are up to. In my mind at least, that goes out to much worse things than banner ads: incitement of all kinds of engagement, the most effective being rage; the infinite scroll that traps people in apps not unlike a slot-machine; the curation algorithms that promote the most insane, bugfuck and completely-detached-from-reality topics, individuals and trends; the normalization of documenting one's life in excruciating detail for no audience, only to find yourself flung into the life of a celebrity at a moments notice without the resources of one to handle it; the weaponization/creation of culture wars and all the monetizable attention that follows them...

It really is no wonder all of this shit has so badly corroded our social structures, given the sheer weight of the resources we've piled into it. If only we could get this kind of effort out for problems that actually need solving, instead of just endlessly punching dopamine out of unsuspecting consumer's brains.