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[parent] [thread] 26 comments
1. lefsta+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-02 12:54:14
Yes, as can Apple, Google, every cable company, every telecom, the credit card companies, Grindr, health clinics
replies(6): >>mjburg+h2 >>staunt+y2 >>kibwen+k4 >>renega+u7 >>nunez+3b >>Noboru+xl
2. mjburg+h2[view] [source] 2023-11-02 13:06:59
>>lefsta+(OP)
Hence, the GDPR's making a distinction between data essential for operation of the basic service vs. more broad collection.

I take your point that some level of this power exists, necessarily, within internet-based companies with online users.

But I think there's a big difference between, say, signing up to Grindr where you submit a basic form with limited information (and presumably) can retain some minimal anonymity in how you use the app --- and a system whereby the history of all your actions across your online life (banking, social media, dating apps, etc.) is collectable by a centralised agency.

With laws like GDPR, broad datasets have become a liability for companies like telecoms, banks, etc. They don't want it. Accidentally forming 'rich user profiles' based on non-annoymous data is a legal liability.

This is exactly the incentive structure needed. Rather than have companies with an existential profit motive to build mass surveillance systems.

As far as whether a relational database that takes user data from a form is different to a whole system of streaming live event databases with massive streams of user monitoring across websites --- well, I think it wouldnt be hard to write a law against the latter.

These are political, moral, legal and technical distinctions that can be drawn.

3. staunt+y2[view] [source] 2023-11-02 13:08:14
>>lefsta+(OP)
Your point being?
replies(1): >>goodpo+Uk
4. kibwen+k4[view] [source] 2023-11-02 13:17:49
>>lefsta+(OP)
Yes, and the handling all of that personal data should be strictly regulated. Ideally, companies would be treating all of it as toxic waste, and disposing of it as soon as possible.
replies(1): >>thmsth+BI
5. renega+u7[view] [source] 2023-11-02 13:33:57
>>lefsta+(OP)
Credit company does not have microphone near your bed, they do not know which posts you like, or not, they do not have all your mails, and not necessarily know where you drive and how often.

Keeping all of the data under one company umbrella is vulnerable, target for hackers, and easy target for governments.

Your post is not correct.

replies(4): >>corned+se >>garden+He >>s3p+Jl >>IX-103+6N
6. nunez+3b[view] [source] 2023-11-02 13:52:20
>>lefsta+(OP)
Apple Google and Grindr aside, those industries are heavily regulated to prevent exactly this
replies(1): >>j16sdi+gl
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7. corned+se[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:09:12
>>renega+u7
> and not necessarily know where you drive and how often.

They do tough. They know where you refueled/charged your car, hotels you've booked. Not only that, but they also know if you donate money to your local mosque/synagogue, spend just a bit too much at a liquor store, etc.

replies(2): >>Anders+tf >>gpvos+Dl
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8. garden+He[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:09:59
>>renega+u7
While I am all for privacy, which companies enable the microphone next to your bed and collect personal data with it?
replies(3): >>sidlls+Pg >>justin+wk >>renega+zm
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9. Anders+tf[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:13:41
>>corned+se
You can still opt for taking money out of an ATM and and pay by cash to not be tracked by the card company. Meta does not offer the same option
replies(1): >>4RealF+Xn
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10. sidlls+Pg[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:20:54
>>garden+He
At least TikTok definitely uses data somehow from microphones, without any (explicit) consent.
replies(1): >>garden+TB
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11. justin+wk[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:39:29
>>garden+He
Google Nest? Amazon Alexa? Apple Siri?
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12. goodpo+Uk[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:41:30
>>staunt+y2
Just whataboutism, it seems.
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13. j16sdi+gl[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:43:05
>>nunez+3b
They are heavily regulated, but it's hard to audit or prove in court
14. Noboru+xl[view] [source] 2023-11-02 14:44:18
>>lefsta+(OP)
Right, which is why many of those companies are also commonly criticised on privacy grounds.
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15. gpvos+Dl[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:44:28
>>corned+se
Well, then we should re-engineer things so that they don't, or regulate them heavily.
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16. s3p+Jl[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:45:04
>>renega+u7
>Keeping all of the data under one company umbrella

This part of your post is also not correct. What company knows everything about you? There's insurance companies, credit card companies, social media companies... they all have a substantial amount of info about you but they don't all collude to aggregate it.

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17. renega+zm[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:48:31
>>garden+He
Every voice assistant enabled company store voice audio. Some by accident. Some to "make" voice assistant better. Some to do other stuff with it. Your voice is stored for undisclosed time on their servers. It does not have to be stored for long. Unknown contractors look at the footage of your iRobot,tesla.

No regulator will find any proof of anything though, as regular employees will not have access to such crucial data. Regulators will also can be fooled by the maze of interfaces and servers.

There is also incentive for governments to "not see" any wrongdoings of the companies, if they profit from surveillance system.

Ad business is like Palantir in lord of the rings. You do know know who is watching on the other side.

All you have is some "vague" promise from corporations that your data are properly removed.

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18. 4RealF+Xn[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:54:37
>>Anders+tf
You have to use Meta? I'm not arguing for or against privacy here - just trying to point out that you still have options. It might be a pain to contact loved ones, check in on friends, etc. but so is using an ATM.
replies(2): >>phone8+VR >>waveBi+BT
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19. garden+TB[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 15:46:35
>>sidlls+Pg
So they've hacked the permissions on the phone?
replies(1): >>sidlls+7d2
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20. thmsth+BI[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 16:07:59
>>kibwen+k4
This, exactly this. A big part of what got us into this mess is that data is very very cheap to collect, store and process with modern computing. And there is basically no other cost or downside to dealing with the data. This has led to a gold rush where every company became obsessed with data, thinking that any piece of data was valuable and could be monetized eventually.

If however there were strict liabilities for data leaks or privacy breaches, businesses would collect just the bare minimum data and get rid of it as soon as it is not strictly needed.

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21. IX-103+6N[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 16:22:49
>>renega+u7
Do you have evidence that these companies are using the microphones in their devices for tracking? Or that they are using "all your emails" for ad targeting? If not please quit kicking that strawman.

There are real privacy issues here, but this kind of paranoia distracts us from mitigating the actual threats and has us jumping at shadows.

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22. phone8+VR[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 16:38:02
>>4RealF+Xn
"Simply create your own social media company and get all the people you want to keep in contact with to move to it"
replies(1): >>4RealF+Vk4
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23. waveBi+BT[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 16:43:39
>>4RealF+Xn
shadow profiling doesn't care if you directly use Meta products. You're information about your friends, and another example of trends.
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24. sidlls+7d2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 22:37:01
>>garden+TB
I don’t know how, I haven’t looked at or reverse engineered the code. What I do know is that topics I discuss with friends and family suddenly appear in the form of ads and user generated content in my FYP, when none of us has done a search or engaged in other online activity associated with them. Sometimes literally while we’re talking.
replies(1): >>garden+Cg2
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25. garden+Cg2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 22:55:15
>>sidlls+7d2
Isn't this just because they have so much data on you already?

e.g. what are 3 30 year olds in Toronto talking about this saturday? likely the drake concert, winter tires and xmas related things..

replies(1): >>sidlls+FQb
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26. 4RealF+Vk4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-03 14:40:14
>>phone8+VR
When did I say anything like that? You can call or txt to check in on friends.
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27. sidlls+FQb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-06 03:13:59
>>garden+Cg2
Even if your scenario were accurate, it's unlikely their data processing algorithms would pin the conversation down to within the hour of it happening, given that the schedules I keep are not fixed or typical in any way. Also, in my case for some of these, it's exceptionally unlikely given the individuals involved (a 20-something guy and a 40-something guy with odd senses of humor and esoteric interests in a romantic relationship).
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