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1. mrtksn+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-11-02 12:52:11
This very American point of view, for some reason the Americans believe that politicians are some other kind of breed of people coming from somewhere else and they don't have control over them.

The more European point of view is that companies are run by greedy people on who we have no control and we need the government to keep those in check. We have control over the governments and it's O.K. to take them down by force from time to time.

Mass protests are a thing and we vote quite often on who are those "government people", what control we have over the companies? It's very scary to let some businessmen to run the the stuff that our lives depend on. Why trust Musk, Gates, Tim Cook or any other magnate act in our benefit when they all show monopolistic tendencies, profit over human lives and rent seeking?

I don't know if the Europeans or Americans are right about it but overall it appears that the Europeans are having it better despite the stats about money showing smaller amounts of it.

replies(4): >>konsch+Q2 >>irusen+D9 >>pb7+Rh >>umanwi+c81
2. konsch+Q2[view] [source] 2023-11-02 13:07:51
>>mrtksn+(OP)
As a European, this is so embarrassing to read.

The US is one of the oldest democracies on earth.

"You can give the government infinite power, we will do a revolution, no big deal."

Do you have any idea with how much suffering each revolution has been paid for?

And remind me again how the revolutionaries overthrew Nazi Germany?

The sowjet bloc created decades of suffering and blood but according to you that's fine because we can take them "down by force from time to time"?

replies(1): >>mrtksn+55
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3. mrtksn+55[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 13:19:42
>>konsch+Q2
Who said anything about giving government infinite power?

It's just difference of attitudes. Europeans tend to trust the government more than the corporations.

No need for ridiculous examples, for every bad politician example there exist a bad corporation example. You say nazis, I say Bhopal disaster. No need for that, at least the Nazis payed dearly for it. Corporations are unaccountable.

>And remind me again how the revolutionaries overthrew Nazi Germany?

Remind me how the Nazis are doing these days?

replies(3): >>konsch+bg >>JAlexo+dQ >>themac+d01
4. irusen+D9[view] [source] 2023-11-02 13:44:22
>>mrtksn+(OP)
> The more European point of view is that companies are run by greedy people on who we have no control and we need the government to keep those in check.

I don’t remember electing you to represent the point of view of “we the European people”.

replies(1): >>mrtksn+X9
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5. mrtksn+X9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 13:45:52
>>irusen+D9
That’s because you didn’t. You are free to write counter opinions and make an observation of your own, no need of holding an official title.

I hope I was able to demystify this situation. You are welcome.

replies(1): >>irusen+Wb
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6. irusen+Wb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 13:54:48
>>mrtksn+X9
> This very American point of view

> The more European point of view

Its almost like you are discussing about objective facts.

replies(1): >>mrtksn+ed
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7. mrtksn+ed[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:02:16
>>irusen+Wb
I find it silly to write “this is my opinion” every time I write something, apologies for the confusion. I thought that it’s obvious that I’m speaking for myself I don’t claim speaking on behalf of an institution or anyone else.
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8. konsch+bg[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:15:40
>>mrtksn+55
Okay I think we’re done here.
replies(1): >>mrtksn+Ag
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9. mrtksn+Ag[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:17:22
>>konsch+bg
I hope so, I'm not in mood to deal with angry people online.
10. pb7+Rh[view] [source] 2023-11-02 14:23:59
>>mrtksn+(OP)
You are naive if you think Europeans have any semblance of control. What good did all those French riots do this year? Last I checked, the retirement age change got signed into law anyway. All they did was cause damage to their cities the cost of which is levied back onto them.
replies(1): >>mrtksn+8k
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11. mrtksn+8k[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 14:34:38
>>pb7+Rh
>What good did all those French riots do this year

Riots don't necessarily need to achieve an objective. It creates a political and economical cost to politicians. It means that you can't simply ignore the minority only because you currently have a majority, so it forces them to consider a compromise good enough. That's not always possible but it's essentially what separates France from Turkey. In Turkey, Erdogan wins the elections by %51 and completely ignores the %49 because they can't win an election and can't disrupt the public anymore.

>You are naive if you think Europeans have any semblance of control

Who do you think has control?

replies(1): >>JAlexo+OQ
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12. JAlexo+dQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 16:31:41
>>mrtksn+55
> Europeans tend to trust the government more than the corporations.

For some really stupid reason, but yes. We shouldn't trust our governments as much as we do.

> at least the Nazis payed dearly for it

If you mean most of Europe paid dearly for that, then yes.

> Remind me how the Nazis are doing these days?

Surprisingly well and some are even on the rise, why do you ask?

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13. JAlexo+OQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 16:33:22
>>mrtksn+8k
The opposition to rising of the retirement age isn't "the minority", it was in fact - a majority that was against it.
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14. themac+d01[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 17:06:04
>>mrtksn+55
Wow, I guess 6MM ethnic genocide and a world war is comparable to a ~600k casualty chemical spill because at least we punished the Nazis more, I suppose that makes all the difference.

What a perfect comparison for how toothless corporations are compared to governments.

Americans don't think politicians are a different breed of people, they treat them differently because their position in government gives them a lot more power and impact than corporations.

> Who said anything about giving government infinite power?

Infinite power is an exaggeration but EU governments are giving themselves broad surveillance powers while directing your attention at behavioral advertising.

replies(1): >>mrtksn+Sl1
15. umanwi+c81[view] [source] 2023-11-02 17:34:25
>>mrtksn+(OP)
Americans and Europeans are both right about their own situation, because most European countries have functioning political systems, so there is a good level of popular control over the functioning of the state. The same is absolutely not true in the US due to issues like the senate filibuster, lobbying, campaign financing, gerrymandering, first past the post, and surely others I’m not thinking of.

The US is best understood as a very flawed democracy, somewhere between the extremes of actual authoritarian states on the one hand and modern well-run European states on the other.

replies(1): >>mrtksn+qi1
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16. mrtksn+qi1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 18:15:59
>>umanwi+c81
I don’t think that the European democracies are that better from the American one, maybe except for some of the smaller countries, but still I think the European mentality trusts their government more than the companies. For example, in most of the Europe, we have central governmental registry for addresses and IDs, and that kind of stuff. On the other hand Americans and the British argue against that kind of databases, and refused to have ID but their intelligence agencies are known to be very thorough on spying on them. Different ways of doing things I guess.
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17. mrtksn+Sl1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-11-02 18:33:53
>>themac+d01
The sad thing about the holocaust is that it was a popular endeavor. It still wasn’t the case of some nazis unrelated to the German public taking over the power and doing something that Germans didn’t want.

Being done by the government and not by a company doesn’t change a thing. Maybe except that if it was a company, they would have monetize it better I guess.

Antisemitism was and sadly is very widespread in Europe.

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