zlacker

Hamas got around Israel’s surveillance, because Israeli government led by Bibi got complacent and was busy doing geopolitics and selling surveillance tech to various regimes to spy on opposition and journalist.

Now there will be information leaking that it’s Iran and Russia helped, and new type of warfare, new tech, etc, which is true. But this is basically them saying “it’s not we who missed it, it’s that the enemy became more advanced” to deflect blame externally. When you rely on a breach sensor from a border fence, a camera feed and a remote machine gun, if it gets broken you need to repair it right way, and deploy a team immediately. DevOps reacts faster to a server outage than IDF reacted to a breach of security. IDF probably thought that if anything serious breqed in Gaza, Shabak would know. And Shabak probably thought, that in worst case scenario, they had sensors and remote machine gun at the border. This reasoning might upset many Israeli, but it’s a case of complacency and the political elite loosing perspective of what is important.

>>YeBanK+(OP)
> Hamas got around Israel’s surveillance, because Israeli government led by Bibi got complacent

Correct.

> and was busy doing geopolitics and selling surveillance tech to various regimes to spy on opposition and journalist.

OK, that's just foolish. It's not the same people doing those thing.

Israel got complacent because it thought Hamas was more interested in improving things in Gaza than it was in attacking Israel. For example the border was more open just before the attack than it had been in many years.

So Israel relied to passive tech to warn them, and reduced its security posture. Hamas took advantage of that by going dark and not doing thing that tech would notice.

>>YeBanK+(OP)
Security is always a game of cat and mouse. Defenses work best against what you are expecting, and what possibilities you can foresee.

Hamas changed tactics, and their defense held up reasonably well given that between 4 and 5,000 rockets were fired at Israel.

I'm not entirely sure how they could have prepared for paraglider ambushes short of having their soldiers be constantly patrolling, and thus being exposed, along the border.

Then again, I'm just a dog on the internet.

>>YeBanK+(OP)
information that Russia helped? Iran I can understand, but why would Russia help Hamas to launch a massacre? Russia's busy fighting one war already. Israel isn't even supporting Ukraine afaik. and they have nukes, and they're not known for being pushovers. I can't think of a compelling reason for Russia to have helped, only massive downsides.

>>sterli+53
The rumor is that Russia sold Iran information on the Gaza wall protection technology in exchange for the Iranian made drones they are using in Ukraine.

This is a rumor I heard, I don't endorse it.

>>ars+U1
Hamas leadership’s sons and daughters live in NY and Qatar and drive bugattis or whatever is trendy now. Netanyahu dances around Putin, while Lavrov cozies up with Iran and Hamas. And with all this if one still thinks that hamas is improving lives in Gaza all of a sudden and not thinking about some terrorist attack, one is a idiot or too deep in the political game.

> So Israel relied to passive tech to warn them, and reduced its security posture. Hamas took advantage of that by going dark and not doing thing that tech would notice.

There is no such thing as a passive security tech. Their whole doctrine is preventive strikes and fast response time. They failed at both. A motorcade driving to the fence and blowing it up is literally what their whole system was designed to handle. This is why there are multiple lines and buffer zones. When the first gets breached, then get alerted, by the time the second one is reached, they should be looking at the intruder through the scope. Someone at the border with a bolt cutter or explosive trying to sneak in is what hamas has been doing for years. And sending some flying shit over the border has been going for years as well, whether its rockers, burning kites or drones. The fact that they were able to drop some explosives on towers with drones is just ridiculous. This application of low tech drones has been on display at scale since the beginning of Russian invasion of Ukraine. It was only a matter of time until it was applied by hamas.

>>YeBanK+t5
>There is no such thing as a passive security tech. Their whole doctrine is preventive strikes and fast response time. They failed at both. A motorcade driving to the fence and blowing it up is literally what their whole system was designed to handle

they first bombed from drones observation cameras, remote controlled gun turrets and bombed some communication hub. so when everything made boom at same time in control center they simply lost picture and next thing they knew it's mortars falling on them and gates/walls been blown up.

there are also some guesses that some of the explosives could be placed on the fence during the protests in weeks before. de jure nobody supposed to be there. de fact if IDF shoots at legs, after few warnings, it makes appearance on all news publications

>This application of low tech drones has been on display at scale since the beginning of Russian invasion of Ukraine. It was only a matter of time until it was applied by hamas

yeap. this is why merkavas now have "grills" on top. blowing up drones weren't sent over the border there.

>>YeBanK+(OP)
There are many reports in media that the women manning the surveillance cameras made multiple reports to superior officials notifying of weaknesses in the fence and alerting that the Hamas was up to something.

People at all levels explicitly chose to ignore the warnings and consistently assumed the Hamas isn't a major danger. That mentality came from the top.

>>YeBanK+(OP)
Going dark isn't really a new thing though? That's how Bin Laden stayed hidden for some long. They communicated by "the old ways" . The part I don't understand is why they don't have a few thousand hard core army members ready to go at a moment's notice situated somewhere central to the west bank and to Gaza and can logistically be anywhere along those borders within an hour or so. It took several hours for them to get to the area and the terrorists/murderers were long gone.

>>stjohn+Ji
My theory is that such a group within their military and police exists, but they weren’t notified in time, and mostly learnt about it from internet rather than their official response channels. Good old negligence.

>>sterli+53
> I can't think of a compelling reason for Russia to have helped, only massive downsides.

Conversely (and oddly), I can't think of many downsides.

Getting another US ally embroiled in an extended war, an ally that the US currently holds more dearly than Ukraine, possibly helps in negatively effecting US aid to Ukraine and its appetite to prolong the war on Russia's side of the globe. Furthermore, Russia needs not have expended lots of its own resources to trigger such a war. And if can get more proxy millitias of the regional powers to enter the war, it'd be difficult for the US not to put its focus more on that area of the world.

>>sillyf+gC
It is unlikely that there is Russian involvement in my opinion, I cannot make out a motive either. Israel is partially dependent on a relationship with Russia for various reasons as well. The relationship is complicated, with ups and downs, and at times difficult because of the closeness to the US and Russias closeness to Iran/Syria.

If Israel isn't careful, it can find itself in a proxy conflict. I think Russias involvement in Syria and Iran is viewed professionally and not personal as far as that makes sense and for that matter.

>>YeBanK+t5
> Hamas leadership’s sons and daughters live in NY and Qatar and drive bugattis or whatever is trendy now.

Interesting. I haven't even heard of this. Do you have any sources that prove this or at least give some credibility?