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[parent] [thread] 16 comments
1. raducu+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-09-27 06:58:38
It could be, but communication issues could also be at play, plus overeager doctors/social workers. In Romania they go at great lengths not to pull children out of family environments, in Denmark and other more developed countries it could be the opposite.
replies(2): >>mike_h+xq >>pyrale+3S
2. mike_h+xq[view] [source] 2023-09-27 10:33:56
>>raducu+(OP)
Implying ripping children out of their families willy-nilly is "more developed."
replies(6): >>haswel+3z >>menset+dz >>madaxe+tI >>bluGil+QI >>raducu+GR >>Mattic+cW
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3. haswel+3z[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 11:47:05
>>mike_h+xq
Development past a certain point is not universally a good thing.

The term is used to describe the stages a country has been through, and there’s plenty of evidence that as countries develop further, the nature of those developments may or may not be beneficial.

Brexit, online safety and other forms of “progress” come to mind.

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4. menset+dz[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 11:48:15
>>mike_h+xq
Its tongue in cheek. Germany is developed, but you will get arrested if you try to homeschool your children.
replies(2): >>wincy+oQ >>Chris2+0R1
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5. madaxe+tI[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 12:50:42
>>mike_h+xq
In a lot of sci-fi, the most “developed” civilisations have their children raised by robots in crèches.

I don’t think it was supposed to be aspirational.

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6. bluGil+QI[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 12:52:02
>>mike_h+xq
Not ripping children from actually abusive families is more developed. There are many cases of abuses families who need to lose their children, and in some those families still have children. There are other cases where good families lose their children.

Note that I carefully did not say anything about what abuse is. Unfortunately there is no agreement and I don't want to get into that debate (it is well worth having, but it would change the direction I'm trying to go here).

replies(2): >>raducu+nS >>WarOnP+mH1
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7. wincy+oQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 13:28:12
>>menset+dz
It’s very important your children be taught whatever it is the government wants them to be taught! Which went very well for Germany in the 1930s…
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8. raducu+GR[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 13:34:05
>>mike_h+xq
I'm not implying anything other than the fact in Romania social workers KNOW it's very, very likely the child will fare worse fate in an orphanage or foster care, EVEN in cases that would be considered abuse in the West.

Given a more developed country, I'd presume there are more people willing to adopt/do foster care for the right reasons and the social workers can regularly check upon the welfare of the child, thus there can be legitimate reasons to lower the threshold of taking a child out of a family setting vs a less developed country.

9. pyrale+3S[view] [source] 2023-09-27 13:36:17
>>raducu+(OP)
> in Denmark and other more developed countries it could be the opposite.

Did you mean: richer?

replies(1): >>raducu+1U
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10. raducu+nS[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 13:37:51
>>bluGil+QI
There are debatable issues, and clear cut issues -- not providing basic care or medical care is quite clear cut.

Homeschooling is debatable, if the children are evaluated to be equal to their regular schooled peers, I don't think the child should be taken out of the family environment, but should be subject to further wellness checks by social workers.

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11. raducu+1U[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 13:45:48
>>pyrale+3S
I mean more developed, because a country like Saudi Arabia is rich but not developed imho, and there could be countries that are develope -- i.e. they have good education, infrastructure, medical care, human rights, clean environment etc etc and not that rich.
replies(1): >>winter+8ij
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12. Mattic+cW[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 13:57:12
>>mike_h+xq
That's not at all the implication.
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13. WarOnP+mH1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 17:01:07
>>bluGil+QI
> There are many cases of abuses families who need to lose their children, and in some those families still have children.

A challenge is where the ripped-off children wind up, a foster home system with it's own abuse issues.

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14. Chris2+0R1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 17:41:42
>>menset+dz
b/c it's seen as a basic right, and issue of equality to have access to the same level of state education. The concept of "your" children is something of the problem.
replies(1): >>menset+hX1
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15. menset+hX1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 18:04:41
>>Chris2+0R1
It could be a problem, but usually isn’t.

The (darkly) funny thing in the case of Germany is that this lack of diversity in education has created a generation with the fertility rate of South Korea (ie dying).

In this case, the state creating a monoculture that results in the ‘destruction’ of the existing state goes to show why evolution values diversity far more than monocultures.

replies(1): >>Chris2+3y3
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16. Chris2+3y3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-28 03:14:25
>>menset+hX1
> this lack of diversity in [German] education

any evidence of that?

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17. winter+8ij[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-10-02 22:26:18
>>raducu+1U
Sorry, I know this is an old thread, but I feel a bit like I need to share my thoughts on this matter.

> like Saudi Arabia is rich but not developed imho > good education, infrastructure, medical care, human rights, clean environment

Saudi Arabia's record on human rights is truly horrible (for example, recently they've started murdering refugees[0]), but the idea of whether a country is "developed" seems to be highly subjective, imho. I don't know for sure (never been to Saudi Arabia), but I'm guessing they check off all the boxes except for human rights[1]. (About a clean environment--I imagine they'd be as clean as Abu Dhabi or Dubai (the UAE) which were a lot cleaner imo or on par with Western cities. I guess this is a matter of subjective matter, but is human rights a dimension a country has to have in order to be considered developed? If human rights is indeed a dimension that needs to be satisfied, would that mean that the brutal treatment of black and brown minorities in the US by the police would make the U.S. a country that's not developed?

I'm asking this since Western European countries also have a track record that has historically surpassed world records for brutality. For example, Belgium[1] was chopping off the hands of African tribal people they had forced into labor (effectively enslaved), Germany murdered 6 million innocent Jewish people[2] and had a habit murdering people even before the Nazis in its colonies as well[3], the British were responsible for numerous famines in India as well as famine in Ireland as well as other atrocities[4], the French committed atrocities[5], so did the Netherlands and the Dutch with the East India Company[6], and Spain and Portugal (along with England and others) were highly culpable in the murder of millions of Native Americans[7].

Did these actions, at least temporarily, render these Western European countries as "not developed" countries?

[0][a] https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/21/saudi-arabia-mass-killin...

[0][b] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/26/world/middleeast/saudi-ki...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_S...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_genocide

[4] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/worst-atroci...

[5] https://newlinesmag.com/newsletter/the-dark-legacy-of-french...

[6] https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/10/dutch-colonial-history-...

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_Indigenous_peoples

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