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1. marksb+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-09-13 21:36:01
So living on a narrowboat in the UK this is something I have experience with. We have a 335 W panel with an MPPT connected to a 200 Ah 12 V flooded lead acid battery. The battery in reality has a capacity of half that and in the 6 years of seasonality it has probably halved.

A few things :

* you don't need a fridge in winter so you can just turn it off. * charging battery banks / laptops in sunny periods results in the battery bank being useful in times when the weather isn't so kind. * no amount of solar is enough in the deep of winter. * any amount of solar is too much in the height of summer. * pubs are great for charging devices. * lead acid batteries last substantially longer if you only let them drop to half their true capacity and regularly charge them. Yes alternatives exist but there's something to be said for making what you have work for as long as possible.

replies(6): >>verisi+h3 >>latchk+g7 >>cgh+x9 >>cjrp+t01 >>eurode+Ve1 >>api+Zm1
2. verisi+h3[view] [source] 2023-09-13 21:52:49
>>marksb+(OP)
> no amount of solar is enough in the deep of winter

> any amount of solar is too much in the height of summer

I totally agree. I can't understand how it why solar is promoted, when the winter is when you need more energy as you're in more, heating your house, etc. You can't store your summer's energy till the winter.

replies(7): >>amanap+p4 >>stonog+j5 >>Retric+l6 >>lauren+Ye >>8bitsr+cz >>eterni+DL >>pjc50+an1
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3. amanap+p4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-13 22:00:24
>>verisi+h3
It depends on your local climate. I assume the desert southwest in the US uses far more energy in the summer, for instance.
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4. stonog+j5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-13 22:08:40
>>verisi+h3
"No amount is enough" might be true on a boat. I have a land-based deployment. In winter my 5 kWh array generates enough to heat my 2200-square-foot house, as long as I clear the snow. In summer it generates enough to air-condition. This is in addition to appliances, televisions, lights, etc. It's not like the sun turns off for six months.
replies(1): >>Turska+jb
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5. Retric+l6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-13 22:14:42
>>verisi+h3
Rooftop PV isn’t the best plan if you’re north of NYC. The grid can far more efficiently move power from Southern areas that don’t need significant heating in the winter up north. The transmission losses are vastly lower than the gains you get from longer days. And as a bonus you rarely need summer cooling while people south of you do.

However, if you’re in Main and don’t have a ground source heat pump then solar thermal works great. PV is panels are still only 22% efficient and you air source heat pumps don’t work well in ultra cold weather, worse you need batteries for the long nights. But with solar thermal you’re looking at ~90% efficiency for heat collection and ultra cheap energy storage in hot water tanks. You do get less power per m2 of collection area, but that’s offset by needing heat for a longer period.

Off grid solar can work in the surprisingly far north, just expect a significant premium.

6. latchk+g7[view] [source] 2023-09-13 22:20:48
>>marksb+(OP)
I've got a 300ah 12v LiFePO4 battery in my campervan, which cost $1k.

It is way too much power cause the thing is constantly being charged every time the sun shines and it is pretty hard to use 300ah in a campervan while you're sleeping.

The benefit of LiFePO4 over those AGM batteries, is that you can go to zero. It is worth every $ for that and for the weight savings (in a campervan).

Highly suggest checking out Will Prowse on YT. He's a great resource.

replies(1): >>xattt+jh
7. cgh+x9[view] [source] 2023-09-13 22:37:09
>>marksb+(OP)
Sure, but the entire point of the article was to get rid of batteries so I don’t understand what point you are making. This guy was trying to live life with solar panels connected directly to his devices, no batteries at all.
replies(1): >>pjc50+An1
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8. Turska+jb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-13 22:53:16
>>stonog+j5
Latitude matters so much for this, people love to make blanket statements forgetting that their situation doesn't apply universally.

People hardly realize (or straight up don't realize) that once you're in the tropics even the notions of summer and winter start to get fuzzy. Consider: if you're on the equator then you can go from "summer" to "winter" in only a few steps. Obviously, near the equator solar is a no brainer.

And of course the opposite is true, once you're inside the arctic circle solar is basically pointless because there literally is a period of no sun lasting anywhere from several days to several months. Of course not too many people live inside the arctic circle so it's not too much of an issue.

Even between these extremes though, the usability varies a lot.

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9. lauren+Ye[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-13 23:21:29
>>verisi+h3
The UK is a further north than all of the US except Alaska. Seattle is about the same latitude as Paris, New York and Chicago the same as Madrid, and Los Angeles and Houston the same as North Africa.

Solar is never likely to be as important in the UK as it is for the US, but even so it seems it can be helpful because solar generation is at its highest during the summer when wind generation (over a quarter of UK total generation) is lowest.

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10. xattt+jh[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-13 23:41:40
>>latchk+g7
Does the battery have to be kept at a certain temp, and if not, does it get ruined?
replies(1): >>latchk+kk
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11. latchk+kk[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-14 00:10:49
>>xattt+jh
All of the LiFEPO4 batteries need to be kept above 0C/32F, while charging. [0]

Mine doesn't have an internal heater, so I make sure to keep it disconnected from the solar panels when it is cold out.

I live in a warm weather area so it was worth the cost difference for me at the time. Worst case, I can just get a simple 12v heating pad for it.

[0] https://www.relionbattery.com/knowledge/how-do-lifepo4-batte...

replies(1): >>xattt+kB1
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12. 8bitsr+cz[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-14 02:28:49
>>verisi+h3
Winter energy could be done on a (smaller) community basis ... if it constructs a large enough, well-insulated thermal mass, or is lucky to live by one. I grew up in a place where, each winter, a large lake was covered-over by a couple of feet of ice. (Often covered by snow.) The water beneath stayed liquid. A heat-pump under the ice could draw on that source.

Worldwide, the ground itself, a few feet down, stays at about 50F year-around ~~ regardless of outdoor temperature. Locally, summer heat-pumping could be directed underground in some places. Reverse in winter.

Pumping heat from where it's stored is a lot less expensive than transporting and burning fuels. We do need to get better at it.

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13. eterni+DL[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-14 04:28:54
>>verisi+h3
More and more people want air conditioning. I wouldn't be surprised if lots of people use more energy in the summer.

Even here in Montana, the heat going out in the beginning of winter for a few weeks was not really as obnoxious as some of the really hot days with no AC I've seen.

14. cjrp+t01[view] [source] 2023-09-14 07:12:00
>>marksb+(OP)
Do you use an equivalent of a car’s alternator to top up the battery when it’s not sunny?
replies(1): >>marksb+Sk1
15. eurode+Ve1[view] [source] 2023-09-14 09:39:47
>>marksb+(OP)
> lead acid batteries last substantially longer if you only let them drop to half their true capacity and regularly charge them.

I've often read that the solution to this is to get "deep cycle" marine batteries.

replies(1): >>marksb+SC1
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16. marksb+Sk1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-14 10:35:53
>>cjrp+t01
Yes. But the engine is at least fifty years old and so I'm not inclined to run it just for electricity. Plus it doesn't do it any good to run in idle without any change in revs.
17. api+Zm1[view] [source] 2023-09-14 10:53:07
>>marksb+(OP)
Made me search narrowboats and that sounds like a neat lifestyle! Here in the US there are people who live on houseboats in lakes like Lake Cumberland (Kentucky), and that’s probably the closest thing we have.

Have you thought about micro wind turbines? I wonder if those would provide some power in the winter just to charge phones and laptops.

replies(1): >>marksb+6D1
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18. pjc50+an1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-14 10:54:23
>>verisi+h3
I think isolated solar (off-grid) is probably not great unless you're close to the equator, but when you're on the grid every carbon atom displaced from somewhere is valid.

It depends what latitude you are whether the (societywide) heating load in winter or the AC load in summer is greatest. And that breakpoint is moving north all the time.

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19. pjc50+An1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-14 10:58:22
>>cgh+x9
The problem with that is that you can have a brownout from a single cloud passing. I note that his "living farm" example is much larger - scale helps. The more you have a "microgrid" or even, you know, the real grid, the more things can balance out without so much need for batteries.

It is quite dramatic how much cheaper and longer lasting the panels are, though.

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20. xattt+kB1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-14 12:43:49
>>latchk+kk
Thanks! I had a (much) smaller LiFePO4 cache battery in my dynamo bike light stored in an outdoor shed that significantly killed its capacity, so I was wondering what people did to manage these types of batteries in outdoor conditions.
replies(1): >>latchk+wd2
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21. marksb+SC1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-14 12:51:25
>>eurode+Ve1
We're using Trojan t105 6 V ones. I agree that they help but they do watering with regularity.
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22. marksb+6D1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-14 12:52:34
>>api+Zm1
Their output is fairly low due to surrounding trees and housing. I did consider wind for heating water however. That might be feasible with a large enough savonius turbine.
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23. latchk+wd2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-14 15:48:51
>>xattt+kB1
Storing it should be fine. It is charging it that is the issue.
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