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[parent] [thread] 23 comments
1. ilaksh+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-09-12 14:14:31
Fascinating.

One surface level comment. As a non-religious person, I have always found the distinction between buildings for different types of religions as being somewhat artificial. Sure, they have different architectural styles, but they all have a similar purpose in my mind.

So a mosque is a church is a temple, on some level.

replies(4): >>keifer+F1 >>surfin+w3 >>jstanl+T9 >>irrati+VX
2. keifer+F1[view] [source] 2023-09-12 14:20:06
>>ilaksh+(OP)
Not really. They all serve very different purposes, especially when you get outside of the Abrahamic religions. Even then, a traditional mosque serves a very different purpose from a church and is organized in quite different ways.
replies(1): >>ilaksh+93
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3. ilaksh+93[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 14:25:41
>>keifer+F1
I am not an expert in mosques or churches but apparently you are. So can you explain the different purposes? Also two of my examples were Abrahamic so let's just focus on those for now. A mosque, a church, Jewish "temple" or synagogue, are all according to you, for quite different purposes.

Are you sure they don't have a number of similarities?

replies(2): >>keifer+95 >>AStran+cl
4. surfin+w3[view] [source] 2023-09-12 14:26:49
>>ilaksh+(OP)
Each religion is a way to extract money from the community built around it. This is done via a variety of donations, compulsory or semi-voluntary. There has to be a justification for it, so the community is told that the money goes to the temple construction fund which then turns into a temple maintenance fund. Those who run the fund redirect the funds to their own and their friends' pockets.
replies(2): >>gettod+Py >>DiggyJ+v81
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5. keifer+95[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 14:33:29
>>ilaksh+93
Not sure where I claimed to be an expert?

They are different religions with different beliefs and practices. The architectural differences are vast and mostly obvious the minute you walk in. Mosques and churches both have a number of unique elements like the mihrab, confessional booths, pews, floor carpets, altars, and so on and so forth. These all translate into vastly different experiences both during worship and in everyday life. For example, Catholic churches have confessional booths facilitating confessions to priests. Mosques don’t, as (as far as I know) Muslims believe more in direct confession to God, not to an intermediary. You can see how this would result in a different social structure.

The experience of attending mosque on Friday is quite different from Sunday mass. This is intra-religion as well; compare a New England church with St. Peter’s in Rome, for example.

Sure, there are some similarities, but this is such a broad distinction that I question its usefulness, and dividing the world into secular and religious (architecture) is a very recent phenomenon. Saying they all are basically the same is to miss millennia of culture.

Anyway I don’t mean to be hostile or critical here, I just think religious architecture is pretty fascinating and has a much bigger effect on culture, even supposedly secular culture, than people realize. I encourage anyone interested to read more about it.

replies(2): >>ilaksh+J7 >>FetusP+Bb
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6. ilaksh+J7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 14:45:15
>>keifer+95
The substantive culture that I think I know about in a mosque, church, synagogue, or temple, is ethical guidance and community aid. The other substantive cultural element, although this is not always the case, is a lack of tolerance for groups that strongly hold one of the other sets of beliefs.

They definitely have variations in the nonsense that they use to justify themselves, although it could be argued that there as many similarities as differences.

Whether they sit in the floor or not or what types of songs they sing and when are surface level details to me.

My takeaway from history, geography etc. has always been functional.

replies(2): >>keifer+j8 >>beepbo+ll
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7. keifer+j8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 14:47:19
>>ilaksh+J7
It’s so weird how normally people are loathe to appear ignorant and uninformed, yet there are some topics about which they are proud of their lack of knowledge.

/shrug

replies(1): >>dablue+lj1
8. jstanl+T9[view] [source] 2023-09-12 14:54:46
>>ilaksh+(OP)
Yeah, they're pretty much the same. I don't see why any building with a large open space could not function as a church. In principle all of the religions could share the same space if they didn't need it at the same time. It's just nice to have your own place.

Your house is the same as your friend's house, but you'd still rather have separate houses.

replies(1): >>irrati+831
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9. FetusP+Bb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 15:01:38
>>keifer+95
Are you comparing mosques/churches/temples, or are you comparing religions?
replies(1): >>keifer+oc
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10. keifer+oc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 15:04:42
>>FetusP+Bb
I think you’d have a hard time divorcing the “religion” from its physical manifestation (or vice versa) in the world.
replies(1): >>FetusP+xd
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11. FetusP+xd[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 15:10:12
>>keifer+oc
Yeah but you could say Chipotle and Panda Express buildings are very similar, but the core business is way different.
replies(2): >>keifer+2f >>ilaksh+kk3
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12. keifer+2f[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 15:16:25
>>FetusP+xd
But the actual buildings of churches and mosques are quite different. The only ones that are similar tend to be newer constructions or were previously the other thing; e.g. the Hagia Sophia.
replies(1): >>FetusP+hi
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13. FetusP+hi[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 15:29:04
>>keifer+2f
I think ultimately it just matters your comparison tolerance levels. You could just as easily make the argument that most churches are different from each other as well.

In my opinion, churches/mosque/temples are very similar because I live in a younger part of the world where the modern buildings look similar and the eventual purpose is them being a place of worship.

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14. AStran+cl[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 15:40:15
>>ilaksh+93
You could argue the same about other types of buildings too. You are going to a restaurant, a McDonald's, a Cafe, a Taco Bell, a bar that also serves food and so on. People make a distinction between those when they are all places to eat food. Sure the food differs, the way you interact with the staff too etc. But they all serve the same core purpose, yet people call them different things. The same way, people go to different places of worship for different faiths, with different expected behaviors and building designs
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15. beepbo+ll[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 15:40:49
>>ilaksh+J7
There is no virtue or happiness in being Too-Smart-to-Care about the lives, beliefs, or histories of other people in the world. Its certainly ok not too care, but to feel the need to signal this and imply some kind of superiority with it is a short road to a bitter solipsism.
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16. gettod+Py[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 16:31:35
>>surfin+w3
I thought fedora atheists died off 10 years ago? I guess not.
replies(1): >>dablue+Jj1
17. irrati+VX[view] [source] 2023-09-12 18:26:12
>>ilaksh+(OP)
There are many differences. When you look at the typology of most temples, they were viewed as the architectural embodiment of the cosmic hill or mountain. For example, the Egyptians view of creation was a vast sea and some land rose up out of the water and the gods (Osiris, Isis, and their son Horus) came down and dwelled in a hut on the land. Well, all Egyptian temples after that were viewed as having been built on the very ground that first came up out of the water (this was symbolic, they knew that all the temples could not really be built upon that one spot). If you looked at an egyptian temple you will see that in the hypostyle hall you have reed columns which represented the waters around the hill/mountain. As you progressed inwards to the holy of holies you would go up steps and the rooms would get smaller and smaller, just as when you go up a mountain you progress upwards and the circumference of the mountain gets smaller an smaller. Etc.

Churches/synagogues/mosques, on the other hand, are more like community gathering places. Whereas temples are viewed as being sacred and cut off from the profane world and required higher and higher levels of worthiness the closer you got to the innermost parts, churches/synagogues/mosques are more open to anyone who wants to come in and join the services. They are places where there might be activities, sports, clubs, etc. - more community oriented things, things you would never find in a temple.

Churches/synagogues/mosques themselves have different architectural features, but those have more to do with supporting the different ways of worshipping. For example, in Mosques the men and women worship separately. And a mosque needs an area where people can wash and do other ablutions before they enter.

And not all churches are the same. A catholic church will be much different than a protestant or an LDS or a Jehovah Witness church.

replies(1): >>spondy+j22
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18. irrati+831[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 18:39:27
>>jstanl+T9
Except, different religions have different needs. A synagogue needs a place to store the torah scrolls. A mosque needs a place for ablutions, prayer rugs, and to separate the men from the women. Different christian churches baptize differently and so have different needs around that rite. Some needs a font in the ground where people can be immersed, while others do sprinkling and just need a bowl of water. And those are just a tiny fraction of the surface level differences.

What you are saying is that any large open space could function for any sport. But that ignores how football teams need goal posts and a field that is a specific size and needs specific markings on the ground. And a soccer field is a different size and needs soccer goals. And basketball needs a hardwood floor and hoops that are certain distance apart and special markings on the ground. And bowling needs lanes and balls and pins. And tennis needs something else. And so on and so forth.

Religions are far far far more complex than any sport and no large open space could function any more than any large open space could function for all sports.

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19. DiggyJ+v81[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 18:54:24
>>surfin+w3
This is so wrong it's painful. Consider how difficult that would be to prove: starting with the question "What came first: money or places of worship?"
replies(1): >>mister+Yp1
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20. dablue+lj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 19:30:42
>>keifer+j8
And will make grand, authoritative statements about it immediately before proudly professing their intentional ignorance.
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21. dablue+Jj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 19:31:52
>>gettod+Py
Alive and well in this thread, apparently
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22. mister+Yp1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 19:52:17
>>DiggyJ+v81
It well demonstrates the pervasiveness of faith though, and is thus glorious by my reckoning.
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23. spondy+j22[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-12 22:28:36
>>irrati+VX
The sheer aesthetic differences between your average (American) Catholic church and Protestant church are really interesting, and to some extent almost mirror their fundamental theological differences. Completely different vibes.
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24. ilaksh+kk3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-13 09:36:00
>>FetusP+xd
Chipotle and Panda Express are almost the same business.
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