> Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent.
It’s worth mentioning that per this agreement they can still do almost anything else with that data. They could put your face up on a billboard if they wanted to.
I’m out. I was a paying user. Can’t run fast enough from ever doing business with them again.
†but we'll prompt you an overly long privacy policy including such consent whose acceptation is just a checkbox you tick the first time your join a call without even paying attention (nor choice)
They'll do inference all day long, but not train without consent. Only being slightly paranoid here, but they could still analyze all of the audio for nefarious reasons (insider trading, identifying monetizable medical information from doctor's on Zoom, etc). Think of the marketing data they could generate for B2B products because they get to "listen" and "watch" every single meeting at a huge swath of companies. They'll know whether people gripe more about Jira than Asana or Azure Devops, and what they complain about.
Enterprise may resonate with something with Signal level e2ee.
Has anyone tried Element IO, as an example, in a commercial setting?
Asking for a friend.
How does this apply for court hearings, council meetings, etc…
I generally feel like the general slowdown of capital availability in our industry will lead/is leading to companies doing a lot more desperate things with data than they've ever done before. If a management team doesn't think they'll survive a bad couple of quarters (or that they won't hit performance cliffs that let them keep their jobs or bonuses), all of a sudden there's less weight placed on the long-term trust of customers and more on "what can we do that is permissible by our contract language, even if we lose some customers because of it." That's the moment when a slippery ethical slope comes into play for previously trustworthy companies. So any expansion of a TOS in today's age should be evaluated closely.
Hats off to zoom for the free contract drafting lesson!
[edit: thanks to HN commenter lolinder for the actual lesson].
> > Landlord will clean and maintain all common areas.
> In most basic contracts, I recommend using "will" to create obligations, as long as you are careful to be sure any given usage can't be read as merely describing future events. I'm generally against "shall" because it is harder to use correctly and it is archaic.
https://law.utexas.edu/faculty/wschiess/legalwriting/2005/05...
Yes, as with most terms of service. It's one of the things that makes terms of service statements unreliable.
Agreed, and these kinds of short-term incentives are one of the problems with American companies. On the flip side...
Japanese companies think about products in decades -- the product line has to make money 10 years from now.
Some old European brands think about their brand in centuries -- this product made today has to be made with a process and materials that will make people in 100 years think that we made our products at the highest quality that was available to us at the time.
Was zoom careful to be sure any usage can’t be read as merely describing future events? Will ambiguity exist until this agreement is tested ?
Meanwhile not once do they use "Zoom shall". It's pretty clearly just a stylistic choice and not anything sneaky.
Edit: They even use "will" in the all-important phrase "you will pay Zoom". Surely you don't think they meant to be sneaky in that usage, and that is merely meant as a prediction of future events?
I guess it makes sense. Companies are people, after all
Webex seems to be the "corporate" video conference service, when secrets are a concern, from my experience.
Konami vs Kojima and any of the DieselGate companies come to mind.
What is the secure way to video conference? Webex? FaceTime offers end to end encryption, but can not easily share non-mac os screens.
Articles like this sure make me like Apple sometimes
https://9to5mac.com/2023/07/20/apple-imessage-facetime-remov...
So they can create a transcript of the conversation and train with it. Or train on any document you may have shared during a Zoom meeting.
I woukd have preferred the exception - if that was the intent - to enumerate the components of the Customer Content that they want to use for training.
10.1 Customer Content. You or your End Users may provide, upload, or originate data, content, files, documents, or other materials (collectively, “Customer Input”) in accessing or using the Services or Software, and Zoom may provide, create, or make available to you, in its sole discretion or as part of the Services, certain derivatives, transcripts, analytics, outputs, visual displays, or data sets resulting from the Customer Input (together with Customer Input, “Customer Content”);
They just made another edit and removed the line.
Here's the edit history going all the way back to March:
- 4/1 https://www.diffchecker.com/dCuVSMnp/
- 7/1 https://www.diffchecker.com/Zny4Rjqw/
> American companies.
> Japanese companies
> Some old European brands
Unless the parent comment was edited, of course.