zlacker

[parent] [thread] 17 comments
1. Wirele+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-07-23 22:20:37
I love this policy. If it's free then no-one brings their own, and no-one is looked down at.

BUT... I checked the menu of a school where I used to live...

Pizza, hot dogs, fries... We can make the most delicious vegetables, roasted, ...

And they get carbs. Nutrition taken from nature decomposed in its elemental components put back together for the perfect addictive meal...

replies(3): >>steve_+B1 >>WWLink+t2 >>giantg+i3
2. steve_+B1[view] [source] 2023-07-23 22:30:15
>>Wirele+(OP)
I’m not opposed to the carbs. I think if they’re in a whole food form, the kids are so much better off than if they’re eating processed… Anything.

Not teaching kids to eat whole foods is one of the greatest assaults on public health we’ve done in the last century, from what I can see. They become adults who normalize eating these perfect addictive meals, who allow their own kids access to the same junk, and then they their own kids as well, and so on. Until today when grocery stores are quite literally predominately food that you shouldn’t eat. You just shouldn’t.

Most common diseases in north America are highly correlated with diet. I find that so profound. We’re all eating ourselves to death in some form or another, it seems. To have that start in a public school is a real affront to individual and social well-being.

replies(1): >>armcha+W4
3. WWLink+t2[view] [source] 2023-07-23 22:35:01
>>Wirele+(OP)
We shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good. I'd rather see kids get free pizza and hot dogs for school lunch, than I would a system where it costs $8 per student and only some kids get free lunch, but it's 100% vegan fair trade certified healthy food.

Now if you can pull a boiling frog meme and make the pizza be healthy, haha more power to them!

replies(1): >>dopido+ah
4. giantg+i3[view] [source] 2023-07-23 22:40:02
>>Wirele+(OP)
Interesting, most places I've seen are increasing the food restrictions, including in food brought from home. This is probably something you can address with your district if your state doesn't already some healthy school food law.
replies(1): >>fallin+5b
◧◩
5. armcha+W4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-23 22:52:17
>>steve_+B1
We teach kids to eat whole foods, we just don't teach them well.

I remember in school we had a lot of programs for nutrition which were basically health-food propaganda. Yes it was the "Food Pyramid" so not ideal, but there was a clear message to eat minimally-processed foods (fruits, vegetables, dairy, grains) and avoid junk. We watched "Supersize Me" and a documentary which explained all these "vegan / whole foods" diets. But kids still eat junk because they're kids and they don't really understand or care, and everyone around them eats junk; and then grow up and continue to eat junk because it's cheaper/easier and they did as kids.

Also, we had fruits and vegetables in every school lunch, as well as salads and wraps as alternatives to the hot meal. But the fruits were often wilted or bruised, and vegetables canned and/or overcooked. If we had good-tasting healthy food, I'm sure more kids would eat it; but the school lunch was school-lunch quality, and bad quality degrades healthy food more than it does junk food.

The problem is, if we want to teach kids how to eat unprocessed food so that they actually listen, we need nuance and funding. To teach them "healthy <> bad tasting", we need to give them access to good-tasting healthy meals, which are hard to cook. Or if we just keep scaring them into eating less junk, we need to change society so that it's more ingrained that junk food is bad outside of school; right now they get mixed messages, where 1 semester of health class says "junk food bad", but few people care anywhere else. But nuance, funding, and affecting culture are things the government is really bad at, especially when it's an issue as "insignificant" as eating healthy.

◧◩
6. fallin+5b[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-23 23:37:44
>>giantg+i3
How on earth do they have the right to make rules about what food kids bring from home?
replies(1): >>giantg+3g
◧◩◪
7. giantg+3g[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-24 00:21:44
>>fallin+5b
My local district restricts what a kid can bring in for thier personal snack during classroom snack time. It has specific types of approved food listed. In some cases, they even restrict what brand of food it is.
replies(1): >>fallin+Hn1
◧◩
8. dopido+ah[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-24 00:32:24
>>WWLink+t2
I agree with you, I really do. Some meal is better than no meal.

But we forgot how to make decent food at scale.

replies(2): >>Kon-Pe+Sk >>krapp+um
◧◩◪
9. Kon-Pe+Sk[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-24 01:05:00
>>dopido+ah
Many schools, especially newer ones, do not have the facilities to cook real meals.

We should definitely encourage schools to renovate and make use of the kitchens when they have them, encourage kitchen facilities be included in new construction, and maybe even encourage creative solutions when no other options exist.

replies(1): >>dopido+tt
◧◩◪
10. krapp+um[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-24 01:17:26
>>dopido+ah
We didn't forget. It would just be expensive, and Americans simply don't want their hard-earned tax dollars to pay to feed other people's kids, so schools have to resort to cheap solutions. It took radical activism (mostly by the black community and groups like the black panthers) just to get school lunches to begin with, and Republicans/Conservatives have been trying to tear it down ever since.
replies(1): >>dopido+xs
◧◩◪◨
11. dopido+xs[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-24 02:08:45
>>krapp+um
I get your US context. That’s a handful. Thanks for providing that ( irony : 0% )

I just want to play devils advocate on the cost : How would be paying people minimum wage to batch cook food from scratch with local produce be more expensive ?

We did that for centuries without conserve, fridge and NPK to grow our food.

We now have access to cheap energy ( historically speaking ) and a variety of preservation methods. That should be considerably easier.

( and in fact i think it is, I’m in Quebec now, public hospitals switched to cook all their food on the same budget as previously frozen crap. A lot of French municipality are doing the same. Basically you have to pay the yearly salary of à cook, some gardener and a CPA to handle what can’t be grow ( 50% )

A frozen hotdog is pretty expensive for what it really is.

Question : how would be our Republicans friends do lunch for schools? Every kids bring a box ?

replies(1): >>krapp+Ev
◧◩◪◨
12. dopido+tt[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-24 02:14:58
>>Kon-Pe+Sk
Absolutely. Yes. The local part goes a long ways

Some hopeful example :

Quebec hospitals started cooking all their food internally on the same budget.

More and more French municipalities stopped their frozen food subscription to hire a handful of cooks and gardeners with a similar budgets. ( those are minimum wages jobs than can be sourced locally )

To conclude : human have been cooking food in batch for quiet a while. That what I mean when I say « we forgot » : some communal facilities like school don’t even have kitchen anymore.

◧◩◪◨⬒
13. krapp+Ev[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-24 02:32:04
>>dopido+xs
>How would be paying people minimum wage to batch cook food from scratch with local produce be more expensive ?

Local produce is more expensive, as is cooking from scratch[0]. Another problem is that won't scale. You can't feed millions of kids twice a day every weekday from the local farmers' market.

[0] https://www.vox.com/videos/2018/3/22/17152460/healthy-eating...

> how would be our Republicans friends do lunch for schools? Every kids bring a box ?

Make them pay for it. If they can't pay, they don't eat.

replies(1): >>dopido+Dx
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
14. dopido+Dx[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-24 02:52:08
>>krapp+Ev
Thanks for the vox link, I can’t load it now, I’m traveling and have no bandwidth.

I’m ready to change my mind once I’m reaching a wifi.

In interval :

how did we do it for millenniums before frozen carbs?

Random: Let’s say the Roman army. Ok. They were relying on canned food a lot. ( garnum )

But for sure they were not eating frozen hotdog

replies(1): >>krapp+XA
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
15. krapp+XA[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-24 03:27:18
>>dopido+Dx
>how did we do it for millenniums before frozen carbs?

We didn't. Child mortality was higher, populations were smaller, life expectancy was lower and malnutrition and starvation were more common.

Our current population size is the direct result of post-industrial farming and food production making calories easily available to the masses, and all kinds of foods accessible year-round.

But again, the problem isn't modern processed food, which can be perfectly healthy, it's an unwillingness to fund school lunches enough to provide more than cheap, empty calories.

replies(2): >>zo1+xU >>dopido+ii4
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯
16. zo1+xU[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-24 07:01:48
>>krapp+XA
I don't get this. Food is ridiculously cheap when buying/cooking bulk. Cooking in bulk for 500+ students is doable but just needs some dedicated effort, dedicated machinery and investment, and some pre processing that you could certainly outsource to your local community. It's amazingly win win in so many ways.
◧◩◪◨
17. fallin+Hn1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-24 10:55:31
>>giantg+3g
This is why I could never have kids. I hated the busyboides who run schools enough as a kid. As an adult I would probably come to blows with them.
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯
18. dopido+ii4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-07-25 02:10:44
>>krapp+XA
> Our current population size is the direct result of post-industrial farming and food production making calories easily available to the masses, and all kinds of foods accessible year-round.

Absolutely. Post WW2 food production with NPK intrants and machineries changed how we grow food. ( thanks Bayers ! )

But it’s hardly the sole factor and I would not be surprise if it was not the main driver of multiplication.

Medecine & Basic hygiene also went a long way. As well as the great convenience of bottled energy to move things arounds for cheap.

But I think we talk about a bunch of stuff at once here.

For instance I did not mention biologic produce.

Just … cooking food in a large communal kitchens with large kitchen equipment. The kind where you can cook for 50 people at once.

As opposed to : complex industrial process to build a hot pocket or a frozen breakfast burrito.

One is something most people can be trained to do, and the other needs a team of engineers to design, and another team to build the factory and another to run it.

( watching your vox link )

Oh. Ok. Yeah. I find that part relevant

> But the US government also doesn’t subsidize leafy vegetable crops in the same way it supports wheat, soy, and corn, vital ingredients in a lot of junk food.

I think it says it all. Why is the US government meddling with the market? I live in the Us as well: We don’t pay the real price of food. Yeah produce are labors intensive. But a lot of crap food has hidden cost that should be factored in. ( but that’s yet another topic :) )

To summarize, I find it hard to smallow that buying a frozen product that flew to you and is the result of a complex industrial process is cheaper than whatever grow with sunlight, a hour of care a day and some water.

[go to top]