zlacker

[parent] [thread] 40 comments
1. lesuor+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-06-13 14:18:27
> Every single person working in the adtech industry is complicit in this.

Please let me know how to buy bulk consumer data from Google/Microsoft/Apple/Amazon/etc-ad platform.

Ad-Tech isn't the ones selling data; they want to be high up in the value chain. Your ISP/phone company _is_ literally selling your geo-location and data (internet) usage.

replies(11): >>soared+M >>xnx+U2 >>wyre+C3 >>deepzn+Sc >>kevin_+Fi >>ameliu+cn >>93po+qy >>gorbac+SF >>oneoft+MI >>majorm+sM >>Krasno+S41
2. soared+M[view] [source] 2023-06-13 14:23:28
>>lesuor+(OP)
https://www.placeiq.com/licensing/
replies(2): >>lesuor+i2 >>shadow+w3
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3. lesuor+i2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 14:29:12
>>soared+M
How does one place ads on PlaceIQ? This doesn't seem like an ad-platform.

I'm not disputing a data broker sells data; I'm claiming that ad-platforms don't.

replies(2): >>soared+uF >>majorm+xX
4. xnx+U2[view] [source] 2023-06-13 14:31:35
>>lesuor+(OP)
Exactly. I'd go as far to say that attention on government and Google/Microsoft/Apple/Amazon is a (deliberate?) distraction from the shitty apps, internet service providers, and mobile phone companies selling all the data they can collect. If John Q Public knew that their visit history to adult websites was for sale, they would drop the service and demand legislation immediately.
replies(1): >>lesuor+87
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5. shadow+w3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 14:34:43
>>soared+M
As parent post noted, there is no mention of Google, Microsoft, Apple, or Amazon on the partners page for PlaceIQ.

In general, those companies aren't interested in bundling up data on users and selling it to third parties because the data itself is the nest egg. They go out of their way to, if anything, provide services for anonymous matching of interested parties to users they've collected data on, but not in a way that lets those parties pull the data back out.

replies(1): >>soared+FG
6. wyre+C3[view] [source] 2023-06-13 14:35:07
>>lesuor+(OP)
GP never said adtech selling data, but they are complicit in the widespread sale of our data to governments. Is adtech not responsible for making the tools that only exist to sell us ads and soak up our data?
replies(2): >>lesuor+n6 >>pfffr+e7
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7. lesuor+n6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 14:45:28
>>wyre+C3
Lets say we have a company and I'll make up a name for them: Perizon. Perizon sells you phones and also collects your location whenever your phone is on. Perizon then sells this data to the USG and anybody (ex. journalists) claiming to be bounty hunters.

Continuing the story, lets say we have a company and I'll make up another name for them: Scroogle. Scroogle operates a popular website and collects your location whenever your phone connects to the website. Scroogle does not sell this data to the USG.

Which company is complicit in the widespread sale of data? Perizon has it's own data ingest system separate from Scroogles. It's always been separate and it's been operating for decades; Scroogle is not complicit in Perizon's decisions.

--

Now, there is certainly an arguement that Scroogle shouldn't collect all the data it does. But lets be calling a Spade a Spade here; Perizon is the company that fits your description.

replies(1): >>gabere+Wb
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8. lesuor+87[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 14:49:15
>>xnx+U2
And that's semi-how we got the Video Privacy Act [1].

Some journalist was like, "what happens if I go to [VHS Rental Store] and ask for the list of videos a supreme court nominee rented". And the store gave him the list and he subsequently published it and then congress panicked as they knew their rental history could be next.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act

replies(2): >>f-secu+Sb >>hinkle+Kr
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9. pfffr+e7[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 14:49:26
>>wyre+C3
Personal accountability is a dying trait it seems. Sorry you are getting downvoted for what seems to be an accurate assessment of the situation. I wonder if the people downvoting would argue that advertisers for taco bell are not complicit in your buying a taco?
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10. f-secu+Sb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 15:05:47
>>lesuor+87
So we need to purchase this sensitive data for congress members and publish it. Seems straightforward.
replies(1): >>brainf+pl
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11. gabere+Wb[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 15:06:16
>>lesuor+n6
The reality is this. Perizon sells you a phone with the ability to track your location. They do it. Websites do it. Apps do it. Let’s focus on the websites for a second. When you visit a website, you give up information about your device. User-Agent, device, maybe your location as well but definitely your IP address. This goes into a giant data lake where they can cross this with multiple other websites to determine if it’s “you”. Once determined, they put together a profile of you - your sites, apps, locations, buying habits, search history, demographics, income history, you name it - from multiple data brokers and sources. Then this profile is bundled and sold.

How do I know? I briefly worked for a company that enabled this. I didn’t stay.

replies(1): >>lesuor+8q
12. deepzn+Sc[view] [source] 2023-06-13 15:09:15
>>lesuor+(OP)
When it comes to adtech, I don't immediately think of Big Tech, but they are in fact the largest aggregators of data which feeds into the system. I always wondered why there isn't enough government pushback or regulation to limit this. I guess this post is maybe part of the reason.

I think in the public sphere, many don't think of Big Tech as privacy intruders, even with Facebook's public failures, many continue to use their services. I'm not sure if most people care or don't care. But when Apple took the initiative to limit 3rd party cookies by asking it's users directly whether they wanted to allow it or not, the majority chose not to allow it. Which shows people don't want their data to be tracked.

On a related note, I don't think I've ever clicked on a banner ad on a site, or any twitter/youtube ad, etc. There's certainly an element of marketing that's brand awareness. But all the other metrics about click rates, and purchase intent, etc- I have no idea how this all adds up to the massive numbers that Big tech pulls in from ads on the Internet.

replies(1): >>lesuor+tr
13. kevin_+Fi[view] [source] 2023-06-13 15:32:01
>>lesuor+(OP)
Ad tech has been around since before the internet. Data brokers have been building detailed profiles on everyone for decades. They sell this data to the government.

In 1998 I sat in a meeting at the oldest data broker in the country where someone gleefully explained how they could predict menstrual cycles from consumer purchase data and use that for targeted ads optimized weekly for emotional state and all other known personal preferences. This isn't something invented by FB and Google. They're the noobs in this world.

replies(2): >>hinkle+ir >>dylan6+2y
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14. brainf+pl[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 15:42:00
>>f-secu+Sb
John Oliver did it[1] and "blackmailed" congress to act. Still crickets.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqn3gR1WTcA

replies(1): >>hinkle+fs
15. ameliu+cn[view] [source] 2023-06-13 15:48:44
>>lesuor+(OP)
> Please let me know how to buy bulk consumer data from Google/Microsoft/Apple/Amazon/etc-ad platform.

Step 1: become a U.S. Spy Agency.

replies(2): >>lesuor+nu >>kmoser+gl1
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16. lesuor+8q[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:00:57
>>gabere+Wb
You got hired at (the fictional company) Scroogle and can verify that they produced a data lake and then sell nice zip drives of that data to people?

I have no doubt that out of all the websites in existence some collect your location and sell it to any bidders. My point is that if you focus on the actual ad-platforms the behavior of selling location data is not what they do. If you have a problem with people selling location data you should be focusing on people selling location data and not some nebulous "ad-tech". Perizon does not validate if you're using the location data to catch criminals, sell shoes, or find your wife to beat her to death. Even without "ad-tech" Perizon still has a financial incentive to sell your data.

replies(1): >>dylan6+Oy
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17. hinkle+ir[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:06:58
>>kevin_+Fi
A kid with a replica samurai sword can do a lot of damage his betters would have more discretion about.
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18. lesuor+tr[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:07:25
>>deepzn+Sc
> but they are in fact the largest aggregators of data which feeds into the system.

Feeds into what "system".

Do you really think Google/Amazon/Apple/etc are handing over your Name+Phone number to say Spokeo [1]? I just don't think you get it. Your phone company is the one that is selling your data to anybody not FAANG.

It's easy to say some "ad-tech" are doing X, but actually get a whiteboard out and start with say Google and list what products of theirs collect what data. Then list the process by which say the USG buys its from Google. I'm very interested in what names for the processes are going to be because I really doubt you'll find any for the ad-platforms.

[1]: https://www.spokeo.com/people-search

replies(1): >>deepzn+E81
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19. hinkle+Kr[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:08:17
>>lesuor+87
We should be doing this kind of shit every week. Congress critters are supposed to represent us but most represent a cartoon version of their constituency or eventually just themselves.
replies(1): >>JohnFe+YE
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20. hinkle+fs[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:10:16
>>brainf+pl
John has plenty of other wins.

A part of me still routinely wants Jon Stewart to move to Tennessee and run for the Turtle’s Congressional seat, on a platform of veteran and emergency worker welfare if nothing else.

replies(1): >>dylan6+px
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21. lesuor+nu[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:17:46
>>ameliu+cn
Then why did the NSA tap Google [1]?

Is Snowden some kind of 4d chess false flag? lol ....

[1]: https://www.theverge.com/2013/10/30/5046958/nsa-secretly-tap...

replies(1): >>93po+hx
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22. 93po+hx[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:27:13
>>lesuor+nu
It is perfectly reasonable with the track record of the NSA to both pay Google to provide user data (under threats of NSLs or a million other things) along with also spying on Google to check to deceit or things they don't want to disclose.
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23. dylan6+px[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:27:33
>>hinkle+fs
is carpet bagging still a negative? the last time i even heard it discussed was when Hillary "moved" to New York.
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24. dylan6+2y[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:30:12
>>kevin_+Fi
>Ad tech has been around since before the internet.

True, but it was never this granular on this mass of a scale. I remember joking as a kid about the Nielson families that would kill a TV show because they went out to dinner instead of watching TV that night. The extrapolation that was applied to those kinds of numbers were always ripe for bad interpretation. The same thing can be said about polling numbers. The granularity is what makes modern day "ad tech" or tracking in general so damn dangerous in its accuracy

replies(1): >>kevin_+dk1
25. 93po+qy[view] [source] 2023-06-13 16:31:27
>>lesuor+(OP)
Google has been providing user data to the US government since at least 2009:

https://transparencyreport.google.com/user-data/overview?use...

And this is just the stuff they're public about. Also interesting to note that while they classify some of these as "warrants" or whatever else, they don't actually say whether it simply originated from a warrant, or whether they were legally obligated to comply due to the warrant.

Over the years it's been millions of accounts, and the data they gather from those millions of accounts also creates a vivid image of tens or hundreds of millions of other accounts.

Can't get the warrant to get the user data for some given person? No problem, get a reason to have a warrant for all 5,295 people she's ever communicated to over Google services. It effectively services as a warrant for her data specifically at that point.

replies(1): >>nerdix+UR
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26. dylan6+Oy[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:32:47
>>lesuor+8q
>sell nice zip drives

come now, all of that data is much too big for a zip drive. you'd need a jazz at least

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27. JohnFe+YE[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:54:45
>>hinkle+Kr
Congresspeople represent their corporate masters.
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28. soared+uF[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 16:57:18
>>lesuor+i2
Placeiq is a third party data vendor that usually integrates with a demand side platform (dsp) like google’s dv360, the trade desk, xandr, etc. But you can use their data in other ways outside of dsps for things like measurement or maybe whatever the gov is doing.
29. gorbac+SF[view] [source] 2023-06-13 16:59:02
>>lesuor+(OP)
And your employer's payroll processing provider (ADP, et.al.) is selling your job history and compensation data.
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30. soared+FG[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 17:02:08
>>shadow+w3
The comment I replied to listed /etc so I gave an easy example. For placeiq google/etc is not the provider of the data but the platform where an advertiser would use the data.

I agree - faang/etc do not need to sell the data outside their walled garden but there are tons of vendors with sdks in millions of apps and pixels on millions of websites that have considerable location/user data. It’s easy to find how to buy + activate that data which is the point I wanted to make.

31. oneoft+MI[view] [source] 2023-06-13 17:10:47
>>lesuor+(OP)
On of the worst companies which sells data is constellationsoftware they own tune and hasoffers. Those folks sell a ton of data.
32. majorm+sM[view] [source] 2023-06-13 17:27:26
>>lesuor+(OP)
There's a universe of companies in adtech other than Google, etc, that advertisers leverage to tailor their shit and do the dirty work. Stuff like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlueKai that will suck up anything they can find and then help plug it into your other stuff.

How much plausible deniability of all of this stuff that can be happily plugged into the Google, etc, APIs and tools should we extend to the big players? I'm sure there are plenty of people at all those companies who know that the data connection integrations they provide aren't only getting first-party, originally-sourced data. Google's ad platform doesn't need to explicitly get their hands dirty tying all the threads together for you or maintain a singular massive database of everything, they just need to supply enough hooks to let all the OTHER companies do it. Which is probably good in that everyone's ad-hoc attempt is probably less-accurate than Google could do on their own... but all that data is still floating around and it all originally got connected to use to target ads in these systems.

EDIT: And if you extend it to the publishing arms (e.g. Youtube or MSN or whatever) than I'd bet many of the big players in ad serving have other departments that are running integrations with some of those data aggregation platforms. They know how the game works for sure.

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33. nerdix+UR[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 17:51:21
>>93po+qy
Thats different from what OP said though. Every tech company complies with lawful requests by the government for user data.

As an example, Apple complied with 90% of government requests for user data: https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-complies-percent-us-go...

replies(1): >>93po+Jv2
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34. majorm+xX[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 18:10:28
>>lesuor+i2
Ad-tech is not only "ad platforms"

It sounds like you just aren't aware of how deep a rabbit-hole the ad-tech space is. Google gets to be the relatively-clean "platform" at the top, but they don't exist independently of the rest of the industry.

35. Krasno+S41[view] [source] 2023-06-13 18:34:08
>>lesuor+(OP)
The usual consumer doesn't buy the bulk to do that target group calculation things by himself. Google does that for you!

The Government rather not let anybody outside know what their current target group is.

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36. deepzn+E81[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 18:48:50
>>lesuor+tr
I understand US carriers and ISPs are the most guilty parties that are selling data to third parties. Maybe not intentionally, but we have seen in the past when third parties get access to user information hoarded by Big Tech for e.g. Cambridge Analytica.

Even the data that is collected by Facebook + Google, are mostly non consensual and we don't know what they do with it. Or it's like the classic gun to your head, to use our "free" services aka, if you don't pay for it, you are the customer.

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37. kevin_+dk1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 19:32:31
>>dylan6+2y
Every loyalty card purchase generates granular data about your consumer habits. Where you shop, what you buy, how much you spend. Coupled with age, income, race, sexual preference, political affiliation, and more makes for a deep insight into your inner life. These businesses don't operate out in the open so the general public is mostly ignorant about what has been going on. The level of invasiveness that has existed for 30+ years should not be underestimated.
replies(1): >>dylan6+Pt1
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38. kmoser+gl1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 19:36:54
>>ameliu+cn
Or pretty much any US agency
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39. dylan6+Pt1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 20:10:51
>>kevin_+dk1
It's only about you if you actually provided accurate information. I've never signed up with legit name, age, sex, phone, address with any system of loyalty payments. most of the time you can enter some random phone number and it'll work. so now you're just skewing someone else's metrics. there's all sorts of ways to get the store's "member" pricing without submitting your life to them
replies(1): >>kevin_+3C1
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40. kevin_+3C1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-13 20:36:26
>>dylan6+Pt1
They can correlate with your CC identity for electronic payments. Unless you always pay with cash you're being tracked.
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41. 93po+Jv2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-14 01:36:45
>>nerdix+UR
My point is that I suspect Google complies with requests even when they legally don't have to, and provides data to the government that looks innocent on the surface for PR reasons but is still instrumental for widespread surveillance and infringes on the rights of Americans
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