zlacker

[parent] [thread] 19 comments
1. willio+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-05-31 17:55:18
Wow, that price is insane. To me, that's pretty clearly a shot at any competitor apps for Reddit. Purely anti-competitive behavior here, which to me is silly. Let other apps pop up to better serve your users. At the end of the day, they are still your users and you might learn things from the other apps.

Who ever came up with that price is looking for short-term profits over user happiness and long-term growth.

replies(5): >>ableto+mq >>kenhwa+4v >>thesid+oK >>dreamc+FP >>nomel+QX
2. ableto+mq[view] [source] 2023-05-31 19:34:22
>>willio+(OP)
The idea that it's anti-competitive to do with your platform what you want is in my mind silly. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from building a reddit clone to compete against reddit besides your ability to attract their users.

It comes off as extremely entitled to think that reddit should supply you with the data created by their platform to do what you want with it.

replies(2): >>ohgodp+Cu >>buildb+2v
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3. ohgodp+Cu[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-31 19:52:31
>>ableto+mq
Reddit didn't create data. I did, you did, random users did. Why did it happen on Reddit? Because Reddit, at least for a while, seemed like it was a relatively open place where data wouldn't be stuck and made inaccessible without an account.

Reddit exists _despite_ Reddit's incompetent management and tech teams, not thanks to them.

replies(1): >>mdale+Wr1
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4. buildb+2v[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-31 19:54:35
>>ableto+mq
Um, the users create the data, and consume it. Reddit provides a "marketplace" for that, and sells your data in exchange. Now, they want to rent-seek from the very people making it possible to create and consume that content easily.

And it IMO, is anti-competitive - they are intentionally killing all existing competitors, vs. improving their own offering.

replies(1): >>ableto+ML
5. kenhwa+4v[view] [source] 2023-05-31 19:54:41
>>willio+(OP)
On the other hand, I think the price is damn steal. If Apollo's numbers are to be believed, Reddit is willing to sell its traffic at ~$2.50/user/month. That's half the value of a pre-Musk Twitter user and a third of the value of a Facebook or video streaming user.

So, if you already have a sophisticated ad tech and sales team, you'd be able to pull 50%+ profit margin without having to worry about running the infrastructure for content.

That being said, there's maybe only a handful of companies with a more competent ad tech/sales team than Reddit, and Reddit's is pretty damn bad. So while the numbers make sense, the strategy does not given the competencies available in the market they're trying to sell in.

replies(2): >>fooey+Hv >>ac29+CP
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6. fooey+Hv[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-31 19:57:10
>>kenhwa+4v
none of the 3rd party apps are real companies with resources

they're passion hobby projects that'll disappear rather than turn into a job

replies(1): >>kenhwa+FG
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7. kenhwa+FG[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-31 20:41:03
>>fooey+Hv
You're still allowed to use the API for passion/personal use. They're "passion hobby projects" trying that collect revenue by selling the app to other users. It's disingenuous to pretend they're not also a business.

If you're building your business to be completely reliant on another unsustainable, unprofitable business, don't be too surprised when they ask you to help row or get off the boat before it sinks.

For API restrictions, Reddit has been in a doomed if they do, doomed if they don't situation for a while now. I think there's about a thousand other better decisions they could've made before being forced to make this one about API usage, but I also don't see their numbers and their time simply might've already run out.

replies(1): >>privac+OV
8. thesid+oK[view] [source] 2023-05-31 21:01:39
>>willio+(OP)
> At the end of the day, they are still your users and you might learn things from the other apps.

but those users don't see ads on 3rd party apps. they already know what all they can implement to improve user experience. they just wont, willingly

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9. ableto+ML[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-31 21:09:30
>>buildb+2v
Apollo is not a competitor to reddit, it's a consumer of reddit. Those are very distinct things. It literally doesn't even exist without reddit.

If I have a backyard and let you host a couple concerts in it free of charge and then next year I decide "hmm, I think I should be paid for those concerts you're hosting in my backyard" is that anti-competitive?

Absolutely not.

replies(1): >>primax+x11
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10. ac29+CP[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-31 21:30:42
>>kenhwa+4v
> If Apollo's numbers are to be believed, Reddit is willing to sell its traffic at ~$2.50/user/month.

That's only one side of it though. According to the same post, Reddit's ad revenue is closer to $0.12/user/month. So, they are apparently willing to sell traffic to advertisers for a much much lower price than API users.

11. dreamc+FP[view] [source] 2023-05-31 21:30:57
>>willio+(OP)
> Who ever came up with that price is looking for short-term profits over user happiness and long-term growth.

That's pretty much the definition of enshittification.

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12. privac+OV[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-31 22:03:26
>>kenhwa+FG
There's plenty of FOSS apps that will be impacted from this that don't charge any money
replies(1): >>Karrot+Ag1
13. nomel+QX[view] [source] 2023-05-31 22:14:52
>>willio+(OP)
> Purely anti-competitive behavior here

An app that uses reddit is not a competitor to reddit, it's a client of reddit. No definition of "anti-competitive" applies here.

replies(1): >>ninken+351
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14. primax+x11[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-31 22:37:06
>>ableto+ML
Apollo is also a producer to Reddit, as a large portion of its users use the app and contribute data via it
replies(2): >>solark+y81 >>ableto+R91
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15. ninken+351[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-31 22:56:21
>>nomel+QX
Except there’s a first party client for Reddit, so they’re both a client and server. Their client competes with other clients, and they use their control over the server to give their client an advantage.

Now, whether this constitutes “anti competitive” in the legal sense is probably not going to fly in court: it’s unlikely Reddit can be compelled to offer an API at any particular price. It’s their service, they can do what they want with it. Rather, it’s a lesson that third parties should not be developing clients for other company’s services, as it is building a foundation on quicksand.

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16. solark+y81[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-31 23:17:59
>>primax+x11
That's the funniest part about UGC companies treating their users like dirt.
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17. ableto+R91[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-31 23:27:51
>>primax+x11
> Apollo is also a producer to Reddit

By consuming its apis.....

replies(1): >>primax+esa
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18. Karrot+Ag1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-01 00:26:03
>>privac+OV
Why? A FOSS app can allow the user to just use their own API key. The only reason this is an issue is because the dev of Apollo is profiting off the app; his margins will go away with the new pricing and he's dubious that there's enough demand at the raised rates to sustain development. A FOSS app is under no such pressure.
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19. mdale+Wr1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-01 02:35:45
>>ohgodp+Cu
Eh. You can be more incompetent.
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20. primax+esa[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-03 23:41:33
>>ableto+R91
Some of which are used to generate content, which other people consume. That's how web 2.0 works.
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