zlacker

[parent] [thread] 4 comments
1. woodru+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-05-29 03:39:46
> Framing this as a de facto book ban is definitely "editorializing" though.

I don't know what else you'd call the use of state authority to restrict access to books, without painful euphemisms.

And note: the use of "book ban" to describe partisan curtailments of reading materials is not itself partisan[1]. You can find similar uses of the phrase in any partisan or non-partisan news source.

> Do you disagree that these are topics favored by left-wingers? Do they have collections promoting "Nuclear Energy", "Classics", "Freedom", "Family Values", "Meritocracy", or even "Personal Responsibility"?

There was a classics topic in our library. I think it would behoove you to think one step beyond this and observe that topical selections in libraries reflect three pressures:

1. What the audience (i.e., students in this case) actually wants to read;

2. What the librarian thinks will induce reading among the audience;

3. The librarian's own biases.

You're focusing on (3), when the reality is that (1) and (2) matter more. Asking high schoolers to get excited about a library section on "personal responsibility" or "meritocracy" sounds like a bad joke.

[1]: https://www.foxnews.com/us/library-book-bans-united-states-s...

replies(1): >>mutant+a4
2. mutant+a4[view] [source] 2023-05-29 04:30:11
>>woodru+(OP)
> I don't know what else you'd call the use of state authority to restrict access to books, without painful euphemisms.

First of all, this isn't just about state authority. Parental authority also plays a role. In many cases, removing books from circulation happens due to complaints by parents. This is just some form of parental/public input on what taxpayer money is being spent on, and what kind of books are appropriate for children.

Also, in our current situation, state authority is very often used in ways I would consider inappropriate. For example, in a lot of cases, affirmative action is not only allowed, but required by law. So, there aren't really many good reasons to strictly stick to classical liberal principles.

> And note: the use of "book ban" to describe partisan curtailments of reading materials is not itself partisan[1].

Fox News generally sucks beyond measure. Here's National Review's take (though it is a bit different than mine): https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/04/book-curation-is-not-...

> Asking high schoolers to get excited about a library section on "personal responsibility" or "meritocracy" sounds like a bad joke.

Maybe, but probably there are ways to hype up and sensationalize everything. Besides, I could come up with a lot of "exciting" topics which also probably wouldn't be emphasized: "Victims of Communism", "The Green Revolution in India", "Lysenkoism", etc.

Although you didn't say it explicitly, I assume we both can agree that the librarian's own biases do have a significant effect, and what the typical direction of those biases are. You may think this is a good thing, but that's besides the point.

Also, your (2) is also very much subject to personal biases.

replies(2): >>woodru+a5 >>Samoye+d8
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3. woodru+a5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-29 04:40:50
>>mutant+a4
> This is just some form of parental/public input on what taxpayer money is being spent on, and what kind of books are appropriate for children.

Parental opinions don't make a book ban into not-a-book-ban. They make it into a book ban fueled by parents. Road to hell, good intentions, etc.

The other point is bizarre: two wrongs don't make a right. Political revanchism because you don't like the other things your government does is not socially healthy (arguably, substantially less healthy than any of the topics that are being banned).

Children and teenagers aren't stupid: what you're proposing is replacing subjects that they're interested in with ones that you're interested in, with your interest being an ideological one. I think it's worth taking a step back and considering whether you'd be a worse librarian than the ones that we have; the ones at hand can at least offer the sound justification that increasingly large numbers of students feel comfortable self-identifying as LGBTQ.

replies(1): >>mutant+F9
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4. Samoye+d8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-29 05:12:11
>>mutant+a4
> This is just some form of parental/public input on what taxpayer money is being spent on, and what kind of books are appropriate for children.

Actually I think I would have less problems if the only people who can go to school policy discussions and make these requests are parents whose children are literally in that school system right now. I have repeatedly witnessed people who don’t have children in that school system show up to these things and debate about this. It’s very stupid.

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5. mutant+F9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-29 05:33:52
>>woodru+a5
> The other point is bizarre: two wrongs don't make a right.

It's not bizarre. It's not just about moral principles, but also practical realities.

> Children and teenagers aren't stupid

TBH, I kinda think they are, and I'm not exempting my teenage self. They are definitely impulsive, impressionable, and prone to fads and groupthink.

Have you heard of the book "Lord of the Flies"? Interestingly, this particular book has also been subject to what you would call a ban, at least in one case in because it's "racist". [1]

> Children and teenagers aren't stupid: what you're proposing is replacing subjects that they're interested in with ones that you're interested in, with your interest being an ideological one.

I don't think any of the topics I came up with are more ideological than the ones I mentioned from the library collections. However, probably what you count as ideological is itself influenced by the ideological glasses one's wearing.

> I think it's worth taking a step back and considering whether you'd be a worse librarian than the ones that we have; the ones at hand can at least offer the sound justification that increasingly large numbers of students feel comfortable self-identifying as LGBTQ.

Me personally? Maybe, but I could make suggestions which are definitely an improvement, but I don't think enough high school librarians would consider doing it. An example would be not purchasing any books by Ibram X. Kendi.

[1]: https://archive.is/XQKCa#selection-3183.0-3183.398

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