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1. jchw+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-05-12 19:52:14
I am a fan of this concept, I've thought a lot about it actually. Having a proper open source option is awesome and there is no doubt I'll be trying this on some of my home/hobby infra to see what it has to offer. If nothing else, I really think we need more exploration into the space of adding some basic engineering and ops on top of things like this.

Not just for servers and infrastructure, but does it bother anyone else that for example, the Linux desktop has robust APIs for managing powerful service daemons like systemd, but relatively few applications that use them and provide useful UIs/control panels/dashboards? Somehow for many of the tools we DO have, the Linux desktop is stuck in the age of using popen and regex against command output even though we really ought to be able to do better. It's an odd blindspot in a lot of open source work, maybe it is deceptively difficult!

That's mostly nothing to do with this project though, but the two problems are intertwined in my head as problems where a little bit of engineering could really go a long way.

replies(1): >>0r30+cA
2. 0r30+cA[view] [source] 2023-05-12 23:08:29
>>jchw+(OP)
For your consideration. A single tool that does many jobs is in some ways contrary to linux/unix philosophy of creating tools that do a single job.
replies(4): >>djbusb+OD >>jchw+lO >>llanow+vV >>jamesh+bX
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3. djbusb+OD[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-12 23:42:15
>>0r30+cA
I thought the philosophy was to just build tools you want. So we have, eg systemd and OpenRC. Where one is many-tools and the other is composed of many-small-tools.

Choice is better than "one true way".

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4. jchw+lO[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-13 01:27:56
>>0r30+cA
I am not really asking for tools that do a lot of jobs, though. A simple program that manages systemd services or provides a nice UI around journald logs seems completely reasonable to me.

That said, I don't take the UNIX philosophy to be gospel, and frankly, very little of the Linux kernel or desktop really seems to. That seems to be closer to what the *BSD derivatives would steer towards. I just want a functional operating system, and the specific ideology or design of packages isn't too big of a concern so as long as the end result seems solid.

replies(1): >>0r30+SP
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5. 0r30+SP[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-13 01:42:23
>>jchw+lO
>> A simple program that manages systemd services or provides a nice UI around journald logs seems completely reasonable to me.

Completely Agree

>> [...] the specific ideology or design of packages isn't too big of a concern so as long as the end result seems solid.

The framework of thinking, while I agree is not gospel, is helpful in guiding design thinking towards a shared goal.

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6. llanow+vV[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-13 02:45:17
>>0r30+cA
There's limits on either end of that spectrum (pile of bespoke pipes vs. Lotus Notes), that we can see a demonstrated interest in, somewhere in the middle: the success of tools like Docker, and arguably even something as banal as the concept of an OS (distribution). Any user-facing software, etc.

You don't want everyone wasting too much time handrolling slightly-differing monstrosities instead of a cohesive design if it's not a business or engineering differentiator.

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7. jamesh+bX[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-13 03:06:58
>>0r30+cA
So what are all these 200 line bash scripts that hold the world together?
replies(1): >>hhh+XA1
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8. hhh+XA1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-13 12:03:01
>>jamesh+bX
the EC2 networking script would be a good example…
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