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1. yashap+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-01-21 23:45:28
He’s just 37 years old, I’d say his accomplishments are pretty impressive for 37!

He dropped out of Stanford in 2005, at 19, to co-found Loopt. Yeah, it ultimately failed, but over 7 years they got 5 million users, raised $30 mil in funding, and were acquihired for $43.4 mil.

He was a YC partner at ~25, YC’s president at ~28, and seemed to do a good job leading it for ~5 years. He’s also been pretty personally successful as an Angel investor.

He was an early investor in OpenAI, left YC a few years ago to become their CEO, and they’ve done extremely well under him.

No, he’s not Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Zuck, etc., but his accomplishments at 37 are pretty damn good. I’m not really seeing how this is failing upwards?

replies(5): >>steved+61 >>VirusN+91 >>willia+b2 >>readon+76 >>akudha+rj
2. steved+61[view] [source] 2023-01-21 23:51:50
>>yashap+(OP)
Dropping out of school isn't really an accomplishment. Neither is failing at building a company despite raising $30 mil in funding.
replies(3): >>versio+l2 >>Dantes+A4 >>yashap+95
3. VirusN+91[view] [source] 2023-01-21 23:52:05
>>yashap+(OP)
You are correct, failing upward was the wrong word choice once I realized Loopt didn't crash and burn but actually had a ho hum exit. Definitely not a 'failure'.

If I could, I'd rephrase my question of what makes him stand out from all the other thousands of people who have sold companies for ~10m net? From an outside perspective it looks like the biggest success of his career pre-open AI was getting PaulG to like him a lot.

Hence why I'm asking if others can vouch for him being brilliant or something.

replies(1): >>FreakL+ui
4. willia+b2[view] [source] 2023-01-21 23:57:38
>>yashap+(OP)
Taking seven years to turn $30m into $43m is a worse rate of return than an S&P500 index fund.
replies(4): >>jacque+o2 >>xboxno+rc >>SergeA+ah >>ymolod+Z01
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5. versio+l2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-21 23:58:49
>>steved+61
Yeah, big deal, I could have dropped out of school and raised $30M to build a company when I was a teenager too, I just had other priorities
replies(2): >>random+KS >>throwo+X93
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6. jacque+o2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-21 23:59:03
>>willia+b2
To compare a newly founded startup with an index fund based on the current 500 largest successes is kind of weird.
replies(2): >>typon+Y4 >>willia+md
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7. Dantes+A4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 00:13:15
>>steved+61
I'd say getting into Stanford is one hell of an accomplishment though.
replies(1): >>GameOf+0Q
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8. typon+Y4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 00:15:55
>>jacque+o2
How is it weird? The point is to compare to a “safe” investment. A successful startup is supposed to have 10x or 100x returns for investors. A 30% return should be considered a failure.
replies(1): >>jacque+a5
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9. yashap+95[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 00:17:11
>>steved+61
Founding a company at 19 that hits some big milestones, and comes close to success despite ultimately failing, is still very impressive to me. Nobody bats 100, especially at the age of 19.

Also, from the outside, he seems to have been an impactful/successful leader at YC and now OpenAI. People who know him personally seem to thing he’s an extremely bright and driven person, and his results at YC and OpenAI indicate they’re probably on to something.

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10. jacque+a5[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 00:17:20
>>typon+Y4
No, the assumption is that you will fail, period.
11. readon+76[view] [source] 2023-01-22 00:23:46
>>yashap+(OP)
i tend to see most success stories as luck of the draw. don't know anything really about sam's journey other than what is here, so can't say i know his specific story, and don't really care.

a super-rich dude might need to work hard, or not, but your born circumstances largely predict your success, imo, as seems to be pointed out by science/stats.

but i figure the key ingredients to getting rich, esp without accomplishing 'much' in a traditional sense, are:

  * born in america, or able to get there at some point
  * not poor, higher level incomes/professions/entrepreneur parents better
  * white
  * male
after that, you've got a real good chance of BIG FINANCIAL SUCCESS, if that's your thing.

add Stanford, and now you're virtually guaranteed big/huge financial success -- the only question now is how successful/rich do you want to be, and how quickly?

just my take.

i just feel like OP was probably looking for a "BUT WHAT DID HE _DO_??"-type of explanation, and i'm like, well, did he meet the prerequisites -- i.e. what were the circumstances of his birth/upbringing? if so, he was born in the top 1% of the top 1% of the global population -- that's a pretty good start.

i don't know anything about Sam's particular situation other than what comments said here.

i do enjoy learning about people who fail upwards or just do really well after having not done much -- you can see if it fits into your worldview, and if not, learn and change your worldview.

ditto the stories of the lower-class-born people who make it big - someone maybe like Mark Cuban (or sam altman? no idea of his bg).

replies(1): >>VirusN+af
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12. xboxno+rc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 01:13:25
>>willia+b2
That's so far beyond the point. Yeah, he failed to make the business a unicorn success. He probably still learned an absolute shit ton in the 7 years doing so, and it also wasn't a total flop either.

How does your own age 19 to 26 compare to starting a company, raising $30MM, gaining 5 million users, and eventually selling for a profit? I know I don't compare at all.

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13. willia+md[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 01:21:42
>>jacque+o2
Why? Anything you (an investor) do with your money should be compared to the lower risk alternatives. If it doesn't at least beat those then it's a failure as an investment.

And FWIW, Loopt sold for $43m, but $10m of that went on employee retention. The investors made $3m on their $30m investment. That's an annualized return of 1.3%. It was worse than a zero risk savings account.

Sure, there are other ways of measuring success. Clearly from Altman's view, life has worked out pretty well, presumably in part because of experiences he had and people he met while spending seven years making his investors 1.3%. But doing worse than a savings account is not on it's own a sign that you are a great leader, and clearly Loopt was a failure for its investors.

replies(1): >>jacque+qj
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14. VirusN+af[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 01:37:09
>>readon+76
Your stats are completely off. Whiteness does not predict success as many non white ethnic groups are much more successful.
replies(1): >>readon+ds
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15. SergeA+ah[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 01:51:54
>>willia+b2
I sold my second company for chips, for a price of software and domain name. For couple of years I thought it was a total failure. Then one wise man said that most failed businesses are ending up deep in debt, so exiting net positive is actually is not that bad. Note: we bootstrapped without external investments.
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16. FreakL+ui[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 02:01:51
>>VirusN+91
"Failure" is still a fair description. Companies that raise that much money usually don't collapse outright. Instead the investors engineer an exit, partly because it returns some money but mostly because it looks better and solidifies relationships both with founders and acquirers.

sold companies for ~10m net

We don't know the exact numbers for this particular case, but you can be sure people lost money. Raising $30m doesn't mean the company was valued at $30m; it means the company was valued at much more. For example if you took $30m in a typical Series A round you'd be valued at $150m. If you then sold for a third of that...

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17. jacque+qj[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 02:09:56
>>willia+md
This is not how investing works, it's that simple.

If you want bigger returns you will have to accept higher risks.

A single starting company is never an alternative investment compared to a much larger spread across a series of established companies.

Investors work with risk by having certain portions of their available capital earmarked for investments in particular risk segments. Typically a large chunk will be allocated in 'safe' (for want of a better word) investments, which may indeed be index funds, real estate or other such. Another portion may be invested in more risky but higher yield such as larger investments in a single blue chip stock that the investors feel good about. And finally there is the bucket 'gambles'. These are considered very high risk and are either huge wins or huge losses, rarely mid range returns, in fact (for the investors, not the founders) they'd rather the company gambles big than to end up playing it safe.

But if such a company is in a spot where it will likely lose it all and then a plan to end up returning the investors just their outlay is already a huge plus, and if they manage to make the investors look good by posting a return, however slim then that will be a much larger win: investors, especially those with LPs do not like to post write-offs not because of their own book (they pocket their management fees regardless) but because it will impact their ability to raise again.

I should probably write a blog post on this one of these days.

replies(1): >>roboca+yN
18. akudha+rj[view] [source] 2023-01-22 02:10:16
>>yashap+(OP)
I feel like Zuck is just lucky. While some amount of luck (right time, right place etc) is involved in every bog achievement, Zuck seems pretty pathetic when compared to Gates or Jobs.

He is doing one thing well though - keeping Facebook completely in his grip, despite his shortcomings...

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19. readon+ds[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 03:30:34
>>VirusN+af
whiteness is a little more complicated than the color of your skin.

and groups of people with non-white skin -- say, Asian Indian Americans -- being able to overcome racism is great, but it should not be required, and they had some advantages:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/01/the-mak...

https://archive.ph/ih2Sa

  The result was an intense form of social engineering, but one that went largely unacknowledged. Immigrants from India, armed with degrees, arrived after the height of the civil-rights movement, and benefited from a struggle that they had not participated in or even witnessed. They made their way not only to cities but to suburbs, and broadly speaking were accepted more easily than other nonwhite groups have been.
replies(1): >>VirusN+Tv
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20. VirusN+Tv[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 04:11:36
>>readon+ds
What racism did they overcome? What is your evidence of any racism? It seems your definition shifts from moment to moment? Is it any disparities that are measurable, regardless of intent (what you are likely to say when talking about the african american community)? But then other times you want to make racism some invisible thing that has no external effects?

On top of that, you roll out a quote to trivialize a group’s success due to hard work and determination as “social engineering”.

If we had been talking about the Jewish community and you had used that quote, I think many would consider you a bigot, but currently it’s more socially acceptable to attack Indian Americans

replies(2): >>readon+qM >>pxue+Zo1
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21. readon+qM[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 07:28:21
>>VirusN+Tv
you just trolling now, maybe you always were.
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22. roboca+yN[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 07:43:50
>>jacque+qj
> If you want bigger returns you will have to accept higher risks.

Only in a perfectly spherical economic market. In an efficient market rewards are a function of risk. Lots of founders talk about their secret sauce: information they knew that other competitors did not. Information is not equally known, and economic rents exist, so there are areas where bigger returns are available for less risk. And there are definitely lots of examples where high risks do not have expected high returns!

replies(1): >>jacque+2V
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23. GameOf+0Q[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 08:17:20
>>Dantes+A4
Are people of Jewish descent somehow disadvantaged by Affirmative Action?
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24. random+KS[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 08:56:19
>>versio+l2
Sam's biggest success seems to be raising 30M USD. Everything else in his career is mediocre.
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25. jacque+2V[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 09:28:06
>>roboca+yN
Information asymmetry is a subject all in its own right, I see it as a modifier, it can obviously improve on the risks but it can also add risks and in some cases taking advantage of it can land you in jail. Typically if there is such information it is communicated to prospective investors as either a trade secret or some other mechanism (for instance: a patent that has been filed) but in the typical start-up setting you are going to have to let other parties know that you have this advantage if you want to get into a position where you can leverage it.

I've come across this a couple of times but in 15 years and 200+ companies not often enough to see it as the big differentiator for success or something that negates the usual risk/reward trade off.

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26. ymolod+Z01[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 10:48:04
>>willia+b2
That's why nobody (except the founders, I guess) puts their entire savings in a single startup and builds a portfolio instead. This comparison is meaningless.
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27. pxue+Zo1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-22 14:16:37
>>VirusN+Tv
I don't know why you're getting worked up by previous posters quote.

As an Asian American you absolutely can attribute our success to "social engineering", we went from rail road workers to laundry mat owners to Harvard graduates. You can't have these kind of change on the societal perception level without some kind of engineering.

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28. throwo+X93[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-01-23 01:30:12
>>versio+l2
I see your point, but really it's "losing $30M of someone else's money" that OP is probably highlighting. On the other hand, not a lot of people let you gamble with $30M when you're that young. Just two opposite perspectives
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