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[parent] [thread] 31 comments
1. Daniel+(OP)[view] [source] 2022-12-16 02:56:48
Tinfoil hat on: the dude is a foreign asset and now has to pay dividends.

Tinfoil hat off: all the admiration and money he received turned him into whatever it is that we are seeing today.

replies(7): >>Animal+u >>threes+b3 >>Former+e3 >>mushbi+X3 >>scaram+S4 >>emoden+46 >>dmonit+md
2. Animal+u[view] [source] 2022-12-16 02:58:43
>>Daniel+(OP)
Admiration and money don't really change people. It more exposes them.
replies(2): >>franci+C1 >>fastba+06
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3. franci+C1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:04:01
>>Animal+u
Why not? I can definitely see it changing people, e.g. a simple example making them more paranoid.
replies(3): >>DonHop+Y6 >>JackeJ+0B >>ilyt+bJ
4. threes+b3[view] [source] 2022-12-16 03:12:18
>>Daniel+(OP)
It doesn't need to be as conspiratorial as Musk being a foreign asset.

If Twitter took loans from interests either connected to or sympathetic to foreign governments e.g. Saudi Arabia, Russia then simply trying to keep them onboard could be enough to influence his decisions.

replies(1): >>shusak+o9
5. Former+e3[view] [source] 2022-12-16 03:12:40
>>Daniel+(OP)
He's still giving Ukraine Starlink for free. He'd be an utterly horrible Russian asset
replies(4): >>selcuk+95 >>manner+P6 >>niyiki+5a >>yks+tm
6. mushbi+X3[view] [source] 2022-12-16 03:17:04
>>Daniel+(OP)
Nearly all of the value of his companies comes form government grants and loans. He also has large security state contracts with SpaceX and Starlink. He's a US govt asset, which is worse, imo.
replies(1): >>fastba+E5
7. scaram+S4[view] [source] 2022-12-16 03:20:43
>>Daniel+(OP)
Right... or those are both ludicrous rationalisations for someone who was always a gaping asshole. Many of us managed to never have been fooled by him.

If anything turned him into who he is, it would be his childhood. When he writes the xmas card to his half sister / niece, it must be difficult deciding how to fill out the card.

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8. selcuk+95[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:22:37
>>Former+e3
> He's still giving Ukraine Starlink for free

Paid for (at least partially) by the U.S. government [1]. You can't easily say "no" to your own government even if you are a foreign asset.

[1] https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/spacex-ukraine-elon-musk-...

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9. fastba+E5[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:25:23
>>mushbi+X3
Umm, pretty sure most of the value of Tesla (his main source of wealth) comes from all their cars, tech, and manufacturing capacity.
replies(5): >>wahnfr+97 >>jeffbe+v7 >>lokar+Q7 >>dexter+l8 >>scubbo+a9
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10. fastba+06[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:26:55
>>Animal+u
I'd file this statement alongside the age-old "alcohol doesn't change people it just exposes them" – sounds plausible, but very poorly evidenced.
11. emoden+46[view] [source] 2022-12-16 03:27:05
>>Daniel+(OP)
He’s just sincerely gotten into right-wing conspiracism and also gotten the power to ban anyone who criticizes him.
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12. manner+P6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:30:51
>>Former+e3
GP didn't say which foreign asset.

The Saudis are major shareholders in Twitter, although personally I doubt they're telling Musk what to do so much as being content to let him run it into the ground; it's a win for them whether Twitter under Musk succeeds or fails.

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13. DonHop+Y6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:31:32
>>franci+C1
Which makes me even more impressed that Weird Al and Steve Martin are still nice guys.

...Too bad about Dave Chappelle, though. He's on his way to pulling a Gallagher.

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14. wahnfr+97[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:32:32
>>fastba+E5
it is not entirely private enterprise - government emissions credits are lucrative
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15. jeffbe+v7[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:34:30
>>fastba+E5
Tesla got carried over the chasm by hundreds of millions of dollars in DOE-backed loans, their product is subsidized by state and federal price supports, and all of their profits are due to air pollution swaps, another government subsidy. Good for Tesla for being aligned with the government, I guess.

This is to say nothing of Elon's small-potatoes stealing from local governments via Boring.

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16. lokar+Q7[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:36:31
>>fastba+E5
A lot of (early?) Tesla revenue was other auto makers forced to buy credits from them
replies(1): >>fastba+tO
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17. dexter+l8[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:39:53
>>fastba+E5
Most of the value comes from the ponzi scheme that is their stock. Nothing they have in assets, physical or otherwise, ever justified the price of the stock even at half of what it is today.
replies(1): >>fastba+HO
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18. scubbo+a9[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:44:50
>>fastba+E5
I don't have a recent article backing this up, but this has been false as recently as last year: https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a36266393/tesla-mad...

I guess a definition of "value" as "the intangibles that allow it to keep functioning" would make your statement correct, but a definition that relies on "how it generates revenue" would probably not.

replies(1): >>fastba+QN
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19. shusak+o9[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:46:02
>>threes+b3
Ah yes, famously aligned Saudi Arabia and Russia. And anyways, neither of them care about someone tracking his private jet.
replies(1): >>threes+za
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20. niyiki+5a[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:50:04
>>Former+e3
I don't actually even remotely believe that he is a foreign government asset, but I don't think that's a good argument: giving Starlink to Ukraine is exactly one of the things that a Russian asset would do.
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21. threes+za[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 03:53:30
>>shusak+o9
They are both very much aligned on preferring Trump to Biden.

Or in having a Twitter that has more lax rules around what they can say.

22. dmonit+md[view] [source] 2022-12-16 04:12:08
>>Daniel+(OP)
if elon were a foreign asset, he’d be playing WAY safer with all this shit. he’s probably just doing this because he wants to.
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23. yks+tm[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 05:10:30
>>Former+e3
All Ukrainians I know are paying for Starlinks and the fee have been recently increased.
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24. JackeJ+0B[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 07:00:47
>>franci+C1
I think this is maybe in reference to LBJ's lifelong biographer Robert Caro where he states that "power does not corrupt, power reveals". In it he asserts that what one does with power after obtaining it reveals what the person is. It was there all along, power simply makes it show up prominently.
replies(1): >>franci+FD1
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25. ilyt+bJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 08:03:25
>>franci+C1
Well, there are multiple facets to it. Suddenly having money and having random relatives and old acquaintances show up in your life asking for it might make someone disillusioned about what they thought about the people.

But it won't make genuinely nice person into an asshole that kicks kittens, the money just acts as enabler for stuff they might've been afraid to do before coz of consequences. Like for example pretending to be nice to get promotion at work vs unleashing assholery once there is nobody there to kick you down for your behaviour

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26. fastba+QN[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 08:49:22
>>scubbo+a9
5% of Tesla 2021 Q1 revenue was generated from selling emission credits, 1% from trading Bitcoin, for a total of 6% generated from not selling cars / energy products / etc.

So yes, the vast majority of revenue generators (and therefore value generators) for Tesla (at least in Q1 2021, as per the article you linked) are the things I listed in my first comment.

You were seemingly thinking about what was generating profit, which is generally not how value is calculated, otherwise my (profitable) two-man company would be more valuable than Twitter. But given that you explicitly said "how it generates revenue" at the end of your comment I'm actually a bit confused as to your position.

replies(1): >>scubbo+4ad
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27. fastba+tO[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 08:55:01
>>lokar+Q7
Ok, but the vast majority of revenue was not generated from selling credits over the entire lifetime of the company, which is what matters when we are talking about Tesla's present-day value (and therefore the source of Musk's wealth).
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28. fastba+HO[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 08:56:32
>>dexter+l8
I bow to your wisdom. I haven't made much money in the stock market myself, but I assume you have since apparently you are smarter than the market.
replies(1): >>dexter+Mx1
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29. dexter+Mx1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 14:55:36
>>fastba+HO
I am smarter than the market and you probably are as well. That doesn't help making money though since money is made by luck mouth-breathers.
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30. franci+FD1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-16 15:21:53
>>JackeJ+0B
Yes I understand but I am challenging that with my question (besides "power" in the abstract is very different vs "being constantly recognized/followed"). Certainly being followed, attacked and assaulted in public constantly for being famous can bring trauma, and trauma can change a person, usually for the worse.
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31. scubbo+4ad[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-20 00:22:32
>>fastba+QN
> Emissions credits accounted for $518 million in revenue in a quarter that saw a pretax income of $533 million and a net income of $438 million on a GAAP basis. Needless to say, the credits account for almost the entirety of Tesla's profit for this quarter

518/533 ~= 97%, not 5%. I must be misunderstanding something somewhere. Explicitly, I'm saying that (per my understanding of that article) Tesla derived more income from selling emissions credits than from selling cars in that particular quarter (and, I think it's reasonable to assume, other quarters, given how overwhelmingly that seems to be their business model).

replies(1): >>fastba+3Sn
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32. fastba+3Sn[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-12-23 00:47:17
>>scubbo+4ad
You are conflating "net income" (profit) with revenue. I do not disagree that the vast majority of profit was generated by selling credits, but revenue is how most people measure value for corps (this is how Amazon could be an amazingly valuable company while not turning a profit for years). Re-read the last para in my other comment for another example of why you don't use profit to benchmark "value".

Even the emission credits being "pure profit" is misleading, given that the only reason Tesla can sell those is because of the cars/batteries/etc they are producing, so realistically the cost of producing those things should be deducted against the revenue generated by selling the credits.

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