zlacker

"My understanding is that the late 70s and early 80s in England was a hopeless place."

Yet Thatcher is basically remembered as the devil.

I can't fathom the complete cognitive dissonance of people who believe these two things at once.

>>cloutc+(OP)
I don't see how they contradict. Crap time, crap prime minister

>>cloutc+(OP)
It seems to me that leaders who reduce public debt become unpopular, while those who increase it become popular.

Reduction of UK public debt by Thatcher (visible in the second half of the eighties):

https://ercouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ercchart171...

Increase of US public debt throughout the eighties by Reagan:

https://zfacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/US-National-De...

>>benj11+n2
It's that dissonance between the "crap" prime minister and the ending of the crap times. Thatcher was after the 70s, lad.

>>automa+w3
Thatcher became prime minister in 1979 which isn't after the 70s. Old fogie.

The 70s were crap because of high inflation and fuel costs. Winter of discontent etc.

The 80s were crap because Thatcher basically dismantled the working class.

Is it dissonance about Germans complaining about interwar issues and complaining about the leader they ended up with?

>>benj11+d6
Yes. The Thatcher era marked the end of a lot of stagnation, and while at the time people might have linked her and the era, plenty of subsequent people don't like Thatcher despite the marked increase in quality of life post her era.

>>benj11+d6
The 80's weren't crap. The 80's saw a massive increase in wealth for the working class. There was even a whole comedy character about it - https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/loadsamoney

>>ftrobr+v2
As much as I recognise the good that Mrs. Thatcher did for the UK, I think a lot of the public debt reduction was down to North Sea oil.

>>cloutc+(OP)
The improvement only happened for some people. Thatcher made it better for a group of Tory voters at the expense of Wales, Northern England, Scotland and quite a fair chunk of the Midlands to boot.

She is adored in some of London and all the Home Counties where her polices led to increased wealth and life outcomes.

In the rest of the country, she is the person who destroyed communities and the fabric of what it was to be British for many.

This is not cognitive dissonance. It's different experiences by different people.

Given this is a thread about HRH Queen Elizabeth II, it's worth noting that she herself and her family were no real fans of how Thatcher conducted herself in relation to some of her policies that were _actively hostile_ to many working class communities.

When the Royal family quietly whisper that they think someone is a snob, well... that's saying something, eh?

>>gadder+7b
It was also the end of the mining industry, and many other manufacturing industries. There's documents discussing the managed decline of Liverpool.

Some people who were working class may have done well, but the working class as it was basically ceased to be.

>>benj11+vm
I think it depends which end of the country your piece of the working class was in.

>>ftrobr+v2
Public debt is classic tragedy of the commons. The only way to solve it is to make citizens directly responsible for it.