zlacker

[parent] [thread] 28 comments
1. grishk+(OP)[view] [source] 2022-05-17 17:58:47
Yes, I'm as frustrated as you are. I want a no-compromise 4" Android phone, comfortably usable with one hand. For me, the phone is a communication device for the outside, that's it. I hardly use it at home except for calls. My primary device is my laptop. I have exactly zero use cases that would benefit from a large screen, yet all of my use cases would benefit from being able to fully use it one-handed. I don't watch any kind of video on my phone because it's a torture either way, and I'm okay with smaller fonts to make more things fit on a smaller screen.

It's gotten so bad I contemplated porting Android to the iPhone SE. Not the complete OS, just the userspace, enough to run SystemUI and apps.

Except: a headphone jack is a hard requirement. If a phone has no headphone jack, it could as well not exist for me.

replies(4): >>dont__+zl >>zmix+ww1 >>coldpi+e52 >>niutec+oOj
2. dont__+zl[view] [source] 2022-05-17 19:55:51
>>grishk+(OP)
Very much the same situation for me. I'm especially interested in why Eric doesn't mention the headphone jack -- does he simply think it isn't a noteworthy feature, and assume the phone WILL have the jack? Or does he assume that bluetooth is the future and only silly luddites like us care about the jack?

I hope Eric eases up on the weirdly specific requirements, like dual rear cameras, symmetrical bezels, and a punchout front camera, and refocuses on features that make or break the phone to end users.

replies(2): >>phinna+Vc1 >>zmix+Dw1
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3. phinna+Vc1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 03:19:31
>>dont__+zl
I agree that the requirements should be pared down to the absolute least common denominator, but disagree that the headphone jack belongs in that category. You (and GP) surely have to recognize that at this point requiring a headphone jack is also a niche request.
replies(3): >>hoseja+jp1 >>grishk+Cw1 >>dont__+bh2
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4. hoseja+jp1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 05:58:47
>>phinna+Vc1
That's just fiction phone manufacturers want to make true by repetition.
replies(2): >>zmix+Qw1 >>jhugo+jC1
5. zmix+ww1[view] [source] 2022-05-18 07:27:01
>>grishk+(OP)
Why is the headphone jack so important? These days there are very good wireless earbuds. Except as FM antenna or to plug into legacy devices...
replies(8): >>hansel+Xx1 >>Rugnir+GF1 >>toss1+6J1 >>elxr+kM1 >>mc4ndr+qa2 >>gambit+Za2 >>dont__+Ng2 >>1ark+xP3
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6. grishk+Cw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 07:28:15
>>phinna+Vc1
The fact that the lack of a headphone jack was normalized by Apple with the release of an iPhone 7 doesn't mean it's any less of a nonsensical idea. Unlike storage media, wireless can't supersede wired simply because each of these options has its own strengths and weaknesses and whether one is better than the other is highly subjective.
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7. zmix+Dw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 07:28:16
>>dont__+zl
I am more concerned about the lack of a microSD card slot.
replies(1): >>dont__+Eg2
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8. zmix+Qw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 07:30:07
>>hoseja+jp1
Bluetooth is the new line-in/out.
replies(1): >>grishk+Vz1
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9. hansel+Xx1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 07:41:06
>>zmix+ww1
because it works (TM) everytime, no compatibility issues whatsoever.
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10. grishk+Vz1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 08:05:30
>>zmix+Qw1
No. This software-controlled madness susceptible to interference from microwaves can't possibly be a replacement for just plugging things in. It's literally a Rube Goldberg machine for sending an audio signal between two devices that are a meter apart.
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11. jhugo+jC1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 08:34:48
>>hoseja+jp1
Phone are available with and without headphone jacks. The ones without sell better. The ship has sailed, move on.
replies(2): >>grishk+gF1 >>rchaud+mU1
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12. grishk+gF1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 09:11:52
>>jhugo+jC1
Uhhhh no. Most phones lack headphone jacks these days, so of course the ones that still have them would sell "worse". The same can be said about screen sizes, there are no new phones smaller than 5" "because no one buys them". Of course no one buys something that no one sells.
replies(1): >>jhugo+955
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13. Rugnir+GF1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 09:17:46
>>zmix+ww1
Because I own nice headphones that I like to listen with, I like that they never run out, I like that I can plug them between my phone and my computer as I please instead of praying to the fickle bluetooth gods that they will sync.

It's not that I have never owned wireless headphones, in fact I am literally forced against my will to own and use them and am wearing them as I type. They have some convenience, but adding a headphone jack doesn't mean not being able to use bluetooth headphones - I should just be able to use both.

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14. toss1+6J1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 09:58:28
>>zmix+ww1
Reliability (no dropping 'pairing', no interference)

Security (no practical eavesdropping)

Simplicity (just plug the damn thing in and get a hard connection; the connected device is much simpler)

Options (nothing prevents having both Bluetooth AND headphone port)

The only reason it's eliminated is it's convenient for the manufacturers and they try to sell it as if we all want it, clearly a marketing lie.

replies(1): >>iSnow+zC4
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15. elxr+kM1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 10:34:31
>>zmix+ww1
Because:

1. I already have nice earphones, I don't want to spend another $200-$250 for no reason (the going price of most wireless earbuds I've been interested in)

2. Way lower latency than bluetooth.

3. I have too many things to charge as it is. The reduced anxiety of having 1 less device to charge is worth something to me. I know USB-C to 3.5mm dongles exist, but a headphone jack is still better.

4. I oppose the idea of companies artificially taking out basic hardware features (that we've always had for 10+ years) just so they can force more disposable consumer goods to their users year after year.

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16. rchaud+mU1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 11:47:31
>>jhugo+jC1
The best-selling mid-range phone in the world was the Samsung A51 if I'm not mistaken. I have one and it has a headphone jack. It's only the highest-end phones and tablets that don't have it.
replies(1): >>jhugo+M42
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17. jhugo+M42[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 13:02:47
>>rchaud+mU1
> mid-range phone

I said "phones", without qualification. So while your factoid is interesting, it has little to do with what I wrote.

18. coldpi+e52[view] [source] 2022-05-18 13:05:03
>>grishk+(OP)
The USB-C-to-3.5mm dongles are bothersome, but they're not that bad. You buy one for each headphone you use, and expect to replace each of them once or twice a year. It sucks, but it has stopped the headphone jack being a /hard requirement/ and instead a nice-to-have.
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19. mc4ndr+qa2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 13:35:54
>>zmix+ww1
Bluetooth is shit.
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20. gambit+Za2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 13:39:58
>>zmix+ww1
>>These days there are very good wireless earbuds.

Yes, and now I ended up in an idiotic situation where I have to have a pair for every device I own, because switching bluetooth connections is an unbelivable pain in the ass. No such problems with wired - you only need one pair, you plug them in, they work, end of story.

Not to mention issues like audio sync, which is just broken as hell. As an example, using top of the line headphones(sony MX4s) + a top of the line phone(Galaxy S21), audio isn't in sync with anything other than youtube. Playing games? Enjoy hearing your shots 1s after you fire them. And using them with windows? Now everything is slightly out of sync, because windows is a flaming pile of garbage when it comes to bluetooth audio.

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21. dont__+Eg2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 14:09:18
>>zmix+Dw1
I'd love a microSD card slot as well. I suspect, though, that it's less popular a feature than the headphone jack. Until 2016, almost every single smartphone had a headphone jack. Maybe 50% of phones at best had microSD card slots.

That being said... the Xperia compact series is all the proof you need that a small phone can have it all. Good battery life, flagship camera (though understandably you won't have as many sensors as a giant phone), a headphone jack, a microSD card, good battery life, waterproofing, a fingerprint sensor...

It's such a shame that people continually insist that technology we HAD in 2012-2016 is impossible today. All I want is an Xperia Z3 Compact with modern bands and software support.

replies(1): >>zmix+DzF
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22. dont__+Ng2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 14:09:53
>>zmix+ww1
It just works. Bluetooth does not.
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23. dont__+bh2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 14:11:40
>>phinna+Vc1
Everyone I know gets annoyed from time to time that their modern phones lack the jack.

A lot of people are willing to go without it because practically nobody makes smartphones with the jack any more. But given the choice of a phone with, say, 2% less battery and a jack vs. a phone with a slightly bigger battery and slightly better waterproofing... I'm pretty confident what more users would choose.

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24. 1ark+xP3[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-18 23:45:27
>>zmix+ww1
Just to get the same audio quality in BT earbuds are going to set you (me) back 10x more compared to wired ones. And then what all the sibling comments said.
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25. iSnow+zC4[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 08:15:30
>>toss1+6J1
>Security (no practical eavesdropping)

https://bestsecuritysearch.com/hackers-can-eavesdrop-victims...

replies(1): >>toss1+XL5
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26. jhugo+955[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 12:39:29
>>grishk+gF1
There are myriad models available with headphone jacks. If it's an important feature to you, you have a lot of choice.
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27. toss1+XL5[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-19 16:06:00
>>iSnow+zC4
Yes, there are ways to extract signal from almost anything.

Eavesdropping on either the output of the headphones or the audio data before it leaves the computer/phone is the same for wired vs Bluetooth. The latter seems to be the mode used in the (pretty coo) hack you posted - it's software attacking the Realtek chip, which must be driven by the wire, so exploiting the quasi-equivalence/reversability of speakers/microphones and the back signal from the speaker diaphragms.

This still requires access to get malware onto the device itself, and I'm more considering 'drive-by' or remote attacks in my comment.

To do this against a ~1m wire with millivolt signals without putting a clamp around the wire seems pretty tough in contrast to cracking a signal that is explicitly broadcast with not great security. Not only that, while eavesdropping the signals on the headphone wires will yield only a conversation in the room, which can be much more easily gathered directly, cracking a Bluetooth 2-way comms channel will yield much greater access to the device.

For most of us, neither is a concern, but it certainly is for people who do have real security needs, e.g., I've read that the current VPOTUS specifically uses wired headphones for this reason. Many people who also work with Classified information, Controlled Unclassified Information (CUI), or just with business security issues have the same need. Failing to produce a device with this capability is a failure to address a key and leading market.

28. niutec+oOj[view] [source] 2022-05-24 10:56:08
>>grishk+(OP)
If a smartphone is just the communication device for you, why don't you get Samsung Galaxy Xcover 4s?
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29. zmix+DzF[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-05-31 19:50:54
>>dont__+Eg2
Hey! I got the Z3 Compact as well. Besides the medicore camera, it was a great device! Too bad mine died with some crappy Google app update (constant reboot loop). Happened on my Shield Tablet as well...
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