zlacker

BBC cryptocurrency documentary pulled from air at last minute

submitted by nemoni+(OP) on 2022-02-10 12:16:04 | 138 points 175 comments
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9. astoor+55[view] [source] 2022-02-10 13:00:51
>>nemoni+(OP)
From the now-deleted BBC article[0] he allegedly turned $50 into $10,000 in 5 days, but doesn't say with which coin(s) and/or token(s):

"Fifty dollars turned into $500 (£369) three days later," Mr Hassan said of his financial journey that began at the age of 19. "Two more days later, it was $5,000 (£3,690)."

He said he called his parents to discuss what he should do, but during that half-hour conversation, his investment had more than doubled in value again."

[0] https://archive.is/6taZ8 and https://web.archive.org/web/20220209102657/https://www.bbc.c...

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15. lucius+W6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 13:14:50
>>antihe+B2
Well. So, they were just about to glorify a scam coin less than a week after publishing a crypto-critical piece which sounded as if they had employed Alex Jones[1]. That's worse results than a broken clock lol. If they had went with a retarded blind crypto-good/crypto-bad approach, they would have scored 1/2, not 0/2.

1. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-60281129

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16. ben_w+X6[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 13:14:58
>>WilTim+o2
While I generally agree with your sentiment, some of the most iconic art in the world seems to me to be poorly made and I have no idea why they are valued or admired. I don’t just mean the usual go-to controversial examples in modern art like Serrano’s “Piss Christ”[0] or Emin’s “My Bed”[1], as even some older stuff like Klimt’s “Der Kuss”[2] give me this confusion (the woman has always looked to me like she has a broken neck).

(If it was just “I don’t like it” I would also list Cubism, but I can get that there are well-made examples of Cubism without liking the style).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Bed

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kiss_(Klimt)

19. yodels+x7[view] [source] 2022-02-10 13:20:03
>>nemoni+(OP)
If you're looking for a podcast, the BBC have previously produced a crypto documentary that did not miss the salient fact:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07nkd84

Made some long journeys fly by.

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20. j4yav+G7[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 13:20:36
>>ben_w+X6
The first two I would categorize more as anti-art (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-art). Modern art, which does include Klimt, is its own thing that is (relatively?) more traditional than those examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_art.

Anti-art is more like a sort of trolling meta commentary on art. The "performance art" of the art world, really. People who like it like it for the iconoclasm and/or humor of it, I think.

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27. pjc50+J8[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 13:25:49
>>mandma+U3
The BBC were not especially in support of the war - in fact, much of their problems stem from questioning the "dodgy dossier", resulting in the events of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry and it being made clear to them that the government and security services would not accept this criticism and would take revenge for it.

> smearing Corbyn for years egregious

This really has been egregious.

> internet conmen are charismatic

Half-baked theory, but I wonder if the prevalence of voice comms - Discord, Clubhouse and its twitter ripoff - in this space is used to enable charisma to ensnare victims.

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32. tables+e9[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 13:29:47
>>ben_w+X6
>> It's astonishing to me that people will just buy into any success story that involves crypto and NFTs. People don't question why poorly drawn pictures are being bought for thousands of dollars

> While I generally agree with your sentiment, some of the most iconic art in the world seems to me to be poorly made and I have no idea why they are valued or admired. I don’t just mean modern art like Serrano’s “Piss Christ”[0] or Emin’s “My Bed”[1], but even some older stuff like Klimt’s “Der Kuss”[2] (the woman has always looked to me like she has a broken neck).

I don't think "Serrano’s “Piss Christ”[0] or Emin’s “My Bed”[1]" are in the category "most iconic art in the world." IIRC, most iconic art is such because of it's place in art history, and sometimes what looks poorly made actually required quite a lot of skill (e.g. if you try to flick paint on a canvas like Jackson Pollock did, it won't turn out). Sometimes skill requires skill to appreciate. Can someone who can't code appreciate the difference between good code that works and some spaghetti codes that also works?

I think the issue with NFT "poorly drawn pictures" is there's nothing special about them: not innovative, not influential, not especially pleasing, not made by anyone with any reputation (for art). Just common stuff that doesn't stand out from the crowd. Like a sibling comment said about modern art, NFTs are "an investment vehicle with a veneer of cultural education," without the veneer (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30285259).

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63. rvz+Zg[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 14:09:24
>>Pete-C+U5
It has fell from standards years ago.

It turns out it wasn't the first time they have questioned or even sourced their own reports with suspicion and skepticism. [0]. They just follow the hype and report the same content that every other mainstream media does.

They are supposed to be exposing and investigating these scammers, not praising them.

[0] https://twitter.com/RossMcCaff/status/1491362600483180547

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78. mgh2+8m[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 14:32:36
>>WilTim+o2
Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30272241
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79. iso121+Fm[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 14:34:22
>>gpvos+jj
In 2010 the TV license was £198.79[0]. Today it's £159, that's a 20% cut, with no real change in output.

Over the next 2 years it's coming down another 10% (or more) [1]

[0] https://www.in2013dollars.com/uk/inflation/2010?amount=145.5...

[1] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tv-licence-fee-frozen-for...

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83. lariat+3o[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 14:38:43
>>ben_w+X6
Silver Car Crash by Warhol sold for a 105 million dollars and it is just a screen print of a car crash.

https://www.sothebys.com/en/videos/preview-silver-car-crash-...

Honestly, I can't imagine Warhol would not be involved in NFTs if he was alive.

I think NFTs are beyond stupid but so is 75% of the art in a modern gallery.

In 1987 in a far more Christian society, you can see how Piss Christ is going to make noise.

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90. rwmj+Qs[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 14:54:06
>>verdve+9n
Can't speak about VCs, but for celebrities and promoters there seem to be questionable cross-promotions: https://maxread.substack.com/p/mapping-the-celebrity-nft-com...
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105. ourlor+ED[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 15:34:30
>>luckya+Y4
The reason NFTs annoy me is because the majority of them seem to be stolen work, yet the people who buy them seem to believe that they now have rights to the work.

See the case of https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nft-fraud-qinni-art.

And now I see comments in this thread hoping that tech companies enforce NFTs. No thank you

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115. dandan+1I[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 15:48:33
>>nathia+IG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme
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120. jcranm+wJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 15:54:14
>>ygjb+Wj
The US Copyright Office notes that "Similarly, the Office will not register works produced by a machine or mere mechanical process that operates randomly or automatically without any creative input or intervention from a human author.", and lists in its examples:

> A claim based on a mechanical weaving process that randomly produces irregular shapes in the fabric without any discernible pattern.

That is so specific that I have to believe there was a court case where someone attempted to claim copyright for that kind of process.

But to answer your question to define algorithmically generated, the requirement is that “whether the ‘work’ is basically one of human authorship, with the computer [or other device] merely being an assisting instrument, or whether the traditional elements of authorship in the work (literary, artistic, or musical expression or elements of selection, arrangement, etc.) were actually conceived and executed not by man but by a machine.”

(Citation to: https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap300/ch300-copyrightable-..., see §313.2).

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125. danlug+FN[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 16:08:25
>>dwater+ir
C'mon

The real priviliged class uses regular banking, private banking services[0], they don't need bitcoin.

It's the Engineer in Nigeria trying to conserve his 5 figures at most wealth for his family who needs Bitcoin.

The 7 or 8 figures guy just calls his nearest bank and they will give him the whole package and even launder the money for him.

[0] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/privatebanking.asp

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134. pjc50+hU[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 16:32:16
>>globul+PE
> Have you ever wondered why you can't just save up for a house and buy it with cash?

You can.

> What part is the bank actually playing in this transaction?

They're lending you the money.

I assume you have some different, less obvious answers to this? If you're against the lending of money for interest, how about a halal mortgage? https://www.qardus.com/news/halal-mortgages-everything-you-n...

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137. captai+aZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 16:50:07
>>captai+0S
here you go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_panorama
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140. knorke+Y01[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 16:57:12
>>captai+0S
Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mona_Lisa,_by_Leonardo_da...

Resolution 7,479 × 11,146, or 83 megapixels.

From that page:

The official position taken by the Wikimedia Foundation is that "faithful reproductions of two-dimensional public domain works of art are public domain". This photographic reproduction is therefore also considered to be in the public domain in the United States. In other jurisdictions, re-use of this content may be restricted; see Reuse of PD-Art photographs for details.

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160. tchock+lH1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 20:00:40
>>yodels+x7
Exit Scam is also worth checking out: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/exit-scam/id1565845318

(Disclosure: I know one of the producers)

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161. knorke+XP1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 20:42:17
>>FireBe+gf1
Fair enough. And until courts have ruled, we don't actually know. WMF has vested interest in normalizing it, but on the other hand they do have lawyers so it's not a completely bonkers idea.

And the monkey selfie you mention was actually not obvious legally one way or the other. I believe the human eventually won, but it was down to the details.

In order for something to be copyrightable it needs to have minimal "threshold of originality" to it. In the monkey copyright case the photo clearly had. In the photo I linked to? Much less clearly so.

The EU (because Mona Lisa) is summarized as "The test for the threshold of originality is in the European Union whether the work is the author's own intellectual creation". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_of_originality).

One would have a hard time arguing that framing a painting perfectly in the viewfinder is "the author's own intellectual creation".

In the US it's "at least some minimal degree of creativity".

But yes, both could be circumvented by injecting the painting equivalent of "paper towns", I suppose.

But in any case any of these people could start selling copies:

https://jeffhaltrechtphotoblog.com/2015/09/01/selfie-mayhem-...

But of course we could then worry about what a court would say about a "no photos, please" sign and whether it's a binding contract that signs over any copyright over photos in the place (uh, doubtful).

It's an interesting legal area, and I don't reject the idea you mentioned of de facto re-copyright as a whole. I just don't think it applies to Mona Lisa specifically, for these reasons.

But you should also remember that there's a difference between "You're not allowed" and "You are not able" to take a photo.

Unless you have a contract signing away the copyright to the photo, all the establishment can do is ask you to leave after you've already taken the photo.

And I highly doubt a checkbox ToS when you bought the ticket will be considered informed consent of reassignment of copyright.

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165. dang+ji2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 22:55:35
>>JackFr+R5
Can you please follow the site guidelines when posting here?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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171. abyrne+gz5[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-11 20:19:31
>>fnord1+6z3
Going by this definition of public domain, I don’t see how this could be the case:

> The public domain consists of all the creative work to which no exclusive intellectual property rights apply[0]

Think of it this way. Imagine I wrote some code, and when I ran it it generated a piece of art. Surely I would have IP rights over the artwork? Otherwise you could make the same argument about art made with a somehow automatic paintbrush I built.

I hope I’m not talking at cross-purposes here and using a completely different definition of “public domain” was was intended, apologies if this is the case.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain

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172. fnord1+id7[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-12 13:58:06
>>abyrne+gz5
There is a difference between the concept of a computer being a "clever pencil", which you are referring to, and the computer generating weapons and gear to generate a drop from a selection of "$ELEMENT $LEVEL $WEAPON $MODIFIER" (e.g. fiery epic hammer of orc skull crushing) which is equivalent to generating all of them (not copyrightable).

Now, the individual visual components of the weapons could have a copyright but the computationally assemblaged work based on the components would not because they've just run a job to "generate all the permutations".

For something like No Man's Sky, which is extremely procedurally generated I reckon it's very grey and they could try to make a case but the actual world they generated for people to play in would not be protected by copright. I don't think it's well tested in court.

In the case of the monkeys the hat, the basemonkey, and sunglasses could have a copyright but the assembled monkeys generated by a computer with no creativity would not. But it's a derivative work of things with copyright so that aspect becomes super grey.

The UK government issued a call for views to figure this area out and try to legislate it. Hopefully something useful comes of it. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/artificial-intel...

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