zlacker

What are pragmatic things that we can do to push for open access for academic papers?

>>jf+(OP)
no idea where to start. The entire business model needs to be changed? I feel like its highly intertwined with the entire academia ecosystem, from grants, fundings, universities etc.

But I think there were claims before that these journals were basically using their reputation to make outsized profits? i.e. all they do is receive publications, charge universities outrageous fees to access, and don't even pay reviewers? Thus an increasing number of predatory journals trying to take advantage of this model. If that is proven to be true I guess there is a case for nationalizing research publication work?

Honestly I have no idea though, I don't know enough details about this

>>jf+(OP)
You start with the scientists make it prestigious to publish in an open source journal, make it sexy, make it lucrative.

>>jf+(OP)
Sponsor or help to develop SciHub, LibGen, IPFS-based storage, arXiv and Co.

>>jf+(OP)
Imagine the live map of the money-flow around the research/review/publishing/usage. It could give us some hints.

Pain becomes palpable If one think about it. Maybe some thermodynamically provable illustrations of the energy around the issue would help us illustrate the problem (read: the scale of sickness of the 'intellectual property')

My hunch is that we're at the stage where KWh could - and should be used as the universal money (with all implications and hurdles it may signal)

Like purified BTC.

>>jf+(OP)
Just encourage people to upload their paper to an open access archive like arXiv first. Very few journals disallow this, it's just that authors are either too lazy or just don't want to make their paper publicly available.

>>blaeks+U2
This is completely incomprehensible

>>pixel_+42
Well APS opened a new open access journal PRX which is more prestigious even than PRL, so I don't think that's the problem. Also Nature, which is like, the most prestigious, is also open access...

>>blaeks+U2
i agree with this guy!!

>>jf+(OP)
Mention SciHub in your acknowledgements section.

>>joeber+k3
Nature is open access? Like what recently? And I assume they ask for a metric ton in cash to do that?

>>joeber+83
It's also very field-specific. Like in computer science, almost everyone uploads to arXiv.

>>ramraj+g4
Nevermind it's just Nature communications which is open access, I think the others require a fee

>>sam0x1+o4
Yeah same in some fields of Physics, for example all theoretical stuff, along with most optical or optomechanical stuff is always on the arXiv, however for example some obscure paper on seismic noise might only be in some very expensive journal

>>ramraj+g4
It surprised me as well. But apparently, it's up to the authors (or their institution) to choose.

> From January 2021, authors submitting primary research articles* to Nature will be able to choose to publish their work using either the traditional publishing route OR Open Access.

> *Non-primary research (e.g. Reviews, Comments, News & Views) is not eligible for Open Access and is only published using the traditional publishing route.

https://www.nature.com/nature/our-publishing-models

> The APC to publish Open Access in Nature is €9,500

https://www.nature.com/nature/for-authors/publishing-options

>>krab+g5
In many countries you could sponsor PhD student for a year on €9,500.

It's just crime in white gloves. Academics are defrauding public money by having anything to do with Nature.

Running Arxiv per paper costs somewhere in the order of 10 dollars.

>>Isinlo+G6
From the list of latest articles[1], you can see it's indeed not the most popular option. Only one in seven articles from the last few pages is OA.

The other OA journals still cost money that needs to be budgeted, i. e. not something you would pay out of your pocket. For example PLOS One charges you $ 1749. I guess the prices for publishing the articles may actually converge on a fair price for the reputation associated with the journal.

[1]: https://www.nature.com/nature/research-articles

>>jf+(OP)
Tell authors to publish in open access journals?

Oh right, they don’t want to because they aren’t as prestigious.

>>joeber+b3
(I think it meant) "If you visualize the monetary flow in the article publishing business, the "sickness" involved («pain») becomes visible: the energy waste becomes so apparent that it suggests replacing money directly with energy".

Concept that its author wanted to stress by crafting an energy consuming post.

(Joeberon, you never had to extensively decrypt the texts of theoretical philosophers of the latest centuries, had you ;) )

>>refurb+U7
We don't want to because publishing in open access costs us $2000.

>>quantu+Q9

  We don't want to because publishing in open access costs us $2000.

Out of curiosity, what does publishing in closed-access journals cost?

>>conz+Pa
There's no way to be sure. Maybe nothing. Maybe everything.

Or were you just referring to money?

>>conz+Pa
I think the reference would be e.g. to post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28691445 in this page from stuartbman

(«free for the author but kept behind a paywall, or the author pays up front»)

>>conz+Pa
Nothing.

>>mdp202+39
I'm a physicist, and personally have very little interest in philosophy. I haven't read really any philosophy at all

EDIT: actually that is false, I have read a lot of eastern philosophy, but that to me is more of a religious thing

>>jf+(OP)
When you quote a paper in your own work, explicitly mention that the resource is captive in a walled garden.

>>pixel_+42
Forget sexy and lucrative. You make the NSF and NIH et al. require a link to an open website like Arxiv for each paper mentioned in an annual report. Instead of the crazy system that NSF currently has where you have to upload PDFs to their private Department of Energy archival service that taxpayers can’t access.

>>ur-wha+nq
And, in your online PDF, link the citation to the Sci-hub copy.

This can be automated.

>>conz+Pa
Closed-access journals charge the paper author thousands of dollars per page.

>>ncmncm+gI
It varies depending on the subject area and publisher. Some are free to publish, some have a few hundred dollars a page or more for color (as though they actually print them still), where others might charge thousands to balance the operation costs of a printing company along with journal subscribers. Some journals essentially demand a first born.