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1. PaulDa+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-06-04 01:00:32
You know the story of the boy who cried wolf?

Trump was the boy.

Everybody knows how that story ended, but as a reminder:

"This tale concerns a shepherd boy who repeatedly tricks nearby villagers into thinking a wolf is attacking his flock. When a wolf actually does appear, the villagers do not believe the boy's cries for help, and the flock is destroyed. The moral of the story is that liars will not be rewarded; even if they tell the truth, no one believes them. "

There's a cost to lying. Sometimes it's your own flock. Sometime's its everybody's flock. Maybe Trump was right, maybe he wasn't. The boy was right about the wolf, eventually, too. The moral remains the same.

replies(4): >>mc32+A >>lawnch+V >>briefc+24 >>remark+ta
2. mc32+A[view] [source] 2021-06-04 01:06:22
>>PaulDa+(OP)
Ok, but somehow he turned journalists' brains into mush such that they could no longer do investigative journalism and moreover turned them into bots which flagged Tweets which questioned the received theory and turned the CDC virologist into a Saint?
replies(1): >>PaulDa+32
3. lawnch+V[view] [source] 2021-06-04 01:09:43
>>PaulDa+(OP)
This is a weak and frankly shameful rationalization. Just take the L. People who dismissed this fucked up. People who were jerks about it fucked up even more. Trump Derangement Syndrome is your fault, not Trumps. None of the people who were looking into this or following it were getting their information from Trump. Most of the detractors just assumed they were.
replies(1): >>breaky+l5
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4. PaulDa+32[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:22:12
>>mc32+A
Investigative journalism? Do you know how long it takes to do that sort of thing under normal conditions?

How long was it between the writing of the Pentagon papers and their release? How long did the Catholic sex abuse situation take to be fully reported?

It's been a bit more than a year since the virus turned into a global pandemic. I'm willing to grant journalists a bit more leeway in the timeline for serious investigative journalism, particularly when the central locate is a somewhat secretive Chinese lab in an area that was completely locked down for months as the pandemic started.

replies(1): >>mc32+B2
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5. mc32+B2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:27:10
>>PaulDa+32
Fine. The problem is they dismissed alternate theories out of hand and they castigated any dissident. It was more akin to dogma.

You gotta remember they had time to "debunk" this theory. So apparently they had time to do something, except critical thinking.

replies(1): >>PaulDa+t3
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6. PaulDa+t3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:34:10
>>mc32+B2
You write this as though this somehow new behavior by the media, unique to some combination of Trump and/or COVID19.

This is in fact how the media has always behaved. It did this about more or less every major event in US history. Only when the tide has turned sufficiently within the culture as a whole does the media as a whole manage to embrace non-status-quo positions. There are always outliers, visible/audible from the start, who tell contrary stories, just as there have been for COVID19.

replies(1): >>wearyw+O3
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7. wearyw+O3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:38:50
>>PaulDa+t3
It wasn't just the media.

> "After the interview aired, death threats flooded his inbox. The vitriol came not just from strangers who thought he was being racially insensitive but also from prominent scientists, some of whom used to be his friends. One said he should just “wither and die.”"

8. briefc+24[view] [source] 2021-06-04 01:40:33
>>PaulDa+(OP)
Craziest excuse I've ever heard: "I couldn't be bothered to act rationally and morally because someone else was being too annoying".
replies(1): >>PaulDa+05
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9. PaulDa+05[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:48:01
>>briefc+24
What do you think the moral of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" is? Is it a lesson for the villagers, or a lesson for a (potential) liar?
replies(3): >>mc32+o5 >>briefc+u6 >>Hitton+0L
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10. breaky+l5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:51:27
>>lawnch+V
I mean the only person in my life expressing an interest in this was my mom and she got it from the radio program coast to coast. Which is almost entirely crackpot conspiracy UFO bullshit. Still. I didn't tell her it couldn't have come from the lab. I said there isn't really enough evidence to conclude that. I think that was the mainstream opinion. Not that it couldn't have come from the lab, but that there wasn't enough evidence to support that conclusion. It's normal that something like this can take years to sort out especially when the authoritarian government controlling the area would prefer not to have that particular conclusion.
replies(1): >>mc32+G5
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11. mc32+o5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:52:02
>>PaulDa+05
Why is Twitter suspending the account for the Fauci email leaker(s)? Is that the path to truth?

Whom is that a lesson for?

replies(1): >>ddingu+36
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12. mc32+G5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:54:48
>>breaky+l5
I don't doubt your account --but that's a distraction.

There were many people in bioscience, virology, etc. who said it was possible and should not be discounted, but those people were hounded and shut up.

replies(1): >>PaulDa+c7
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13. ddingu+36[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:58:28
>>mc32+o5
No. Powerful people aren't necessarily interested in the truth, and they have a lot of Leverage out there. That's my personal take.
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14. briefc+u6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 02:01:30
>>PaulDa+05
It's a story. Mature people can act smartly and morally even when they are annoyed

If I had to pick a "moral" of that fable, it's to never let your guard down, no matter what.

replies(1): >>PaulDa+Y6
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15. PaulDa+Y6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 02:06:21
>>briefc+u6
I think you've missed the moral. It's not about being annoyed. It's about making a choice on whether to dismiss someone's claims because of their past lies.

Sure, you can make the case for always ignoring past lies, and always evaluating every claim based on current evidence. The reason the story exists is to try to illustrate how most humans actually behave, despite there being a preferable response.

In addition, the evidence for the lab leak theory wasn't strong back when Trump became the mouthpiece for it. There wasn't much of a reason, even if you evaluated the current evidence for what could be another one of his thousands of documented lies, to take it particularly seriously.

That situation might be changing now, and we are seeing that in the media and culture right now, as we respond to new evidence, or more specifically, lack of other expected evidence.

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16. PaulDa+c7[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 02:08:56
>>mc32+G5
Shutting them up doesn't appear to have been particularly successful. The lab leak theory has continued to be discussed in all kinds of media and many parts of the culture over the last year.
replies(2): >>mc32+w8 >>remark+Bf
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17. mc32+w8[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 02:19:39
>>PaulDa+c7
This claim is laughable. It was all labeled conspiracy theory, fringe, even racist.

Twitter and FB had policies against it and even now, today Twitter suspended the account for the Fauci email leaker(s). So much for open discussion.

replies(1): >>PaulDa+gb
18. remark+ta[view] [source] 2021-06-04 02:39:32
>>PaulDa+(OP)
As has been pointed out, repeatedly, Trump was not the only one pointing out the lab leak hypothesis. "Trump made me not take the lab leak hypothesis seriously" is not the excuse that journalists seem to think it is.

Trump seems to occupy a super position in the brains of media types in this country. He is a idiotic buffoon who no one should take seriously and yet he somehow magically and constantly influences behavior that is directly related to their job.

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19. PaulDa+gb[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 02:47:03
>>mc32+w8
Fauci's email was not "leaked".

Several media organizations (washington post, buzzfeed) submitted FOIA requests for the emails, and as per federal law, they were released. No leak, normal federal government policy process, driven by mainstream-y media outlets AFAICT.

Twitter has not banned discussion of the theory. Here's a thread from May 27th (Nate Silver) discussing it in some detail:

https://twitter.com/natesilver538/status/1397869883585708034

Here's Ryan Delk from May 23rd saying it even more clearly:

https://twitter.com/delk/status/1396583148524212226

They did have policies related to the lab leak theory, but it seems like a mischaracterization to say that the banned discussion of it.

The only person I can find who has lost their account over related matters is a NY Times reporter who closed her own account after making some fairly dumb remarks about the theory.

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20. remark+Bf[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 03:31:05
>>PaulDa+c7
>Shutting them up doesn't appear to have been particularly successful.

The goal posts will move on this, I guarantee it. Suddenly institutional media will claim they've been working on this story the entire time, and all of their pronouncements cajoling people into not thinking about this explanation will be completely memory-holed. I'm not being hostile to you, I'm expressing frustration here because this really does call into question nearly all of the reporting on the broader Pandemic response when we're just fully admitting here that they did this "because Trump". What other stories did they fuck up on "because Trump"?

replies(1): >>PaulDa+Wg
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21. PaulDa+Wg[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 03:47:06
>>remark+Bf
Go back and look at the reporting on every American war of the last 70 years. You will see the same pattern, and yet Trump had nothing do with any of them.

Go back and look at the reporting on every major environmental disaster of the last 70 years, from DDT to oil tanker spills to lead in gasoline to anthropogenic climate change: same pattern. Trump had nothing do with any of them either.

Hint: the media is pro-status quo. On every story, there are a few outliers who provide contrarian accounts, while the majority take a don't rock the boat (much) approach. Eventually, evidence accumulates, the culture shifts, the media changes direction.

It's not, for once, about Trump.

replies(1): >>remark+Xh
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22. remark+Xh[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 04:01:16
>>PaulDa+Wg
Up thread you are literally arguing[1] that Trump is the "boy who cried wolf" and that his "lies" cost us proper reporting on this. I have no idea what past reporting on wars and environmental disasters have to do with the media making an explicitly political choice about how to cover the possible origins of the pandemic.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27389293

replies(1): >>lawnch+TH2
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23. Hitton+0L[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 10:16:26
>>PaulDa+05
As I know the story, claims about wolf were made by just the boy, not by scores of people and subsequently dismissed because the boy was also one who claimed it. I'm starting to question if you argue in good faith.
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24. lawnch+TH2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 22:15:50
>>remark+Xh
His cognitive dissonance is very strong right now. Give it some time. Some people get there faster than others.
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