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1. genera+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-06-04 00:52:14
This is why people say "do your own research". Because trusting some other authority will end badly, just like this.
replies(3): >>tricer+P4 >>colech+Vd >>dang+np
2. tricer+P4[view] [source] 2021-06-04 01:40:48
>>genera+(OP)
> "do your own research"

How? I barely have enough time to do my day job. You think I have the time or expertise to research the origins of a virus?

Where does it end? Do I grow my own food? Make my own clothes? Build my own car after mining ore, smelting it and doing a million other things?

replies(3): >>genera+X5 >>reedjo+R7 >>lmm+1c
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3. genera+X5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:50:16
>>tricer+P4
It's a statement of consequences; just "the way the world works."

Trust the experts if you've no time for more, but this is the likely result.

Put time into your own research, and maybe you won't be caught off guard.

replies(4): >>tricer+66 >>fma+Y6 >>calsy+P7 >>chrisc+cd
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4. tricer+66[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:51:22
>>genera+X5
> Put time into your own research, and maybe you won't be caught off guard.

Why? What guarantees are there that I'll do a better job of research than the experts?

replies(2): >>genera+L6 >>timeli+ae
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5. genera+L6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:57:57
>>tricer+66
It's not that you discover the One True Truth; it's that you know all the things that might be true. If you listen to the experts, all you hear is one possibility - hope they got it right.
replies(1): >>tricer+bf
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6. fma+Y6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 01:59:22
>>genera+X5
Nah what happens is then people start trusting people who say "don't trust the experts, here's my theory though" and says whatever it takes to get clicks to their YouTube channel.
replies(1): >>genera+r7
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7. genera+r7[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 02:02:20
>>fma+Y6
It's as straightforward a statement as it can get. I don't watch YouTube much, but when I read threads on this kind of stuff, that's the mantra: here's what I found, here's what I think, go do your own research.
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8. calsy+P7[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 02:07:44
>>genera+X5
Yes trust the experts if you cant run your own experts. You know the people who can be easily influenced by funding sources, political pressure and their own need for validation and success. If there is anything we have learnt is that 'Authority is Truth' and no one in positions of Authority or 'experts' has ever deceived the public.
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9. reedjo+R7[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 02:07:56
>>tricer+P4
At the very least, ditch ad funded media.

When you're not the product, you'll get more truth.

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10. lmm+1c[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 02:46:56
>>tricer+P4
The more important takeaway is don't shout down those who are skeptical if you haven't actually investigated the authorities' credibility yourself. Get comfortable with not knowing, with being agnostic on a lot of issues, because it's often the only reasonable position.

(The most important takeaway is to ignore Twitter - not "social media", but specifically Twitter).

replies(2): >>chrisc+4d >>tricer+6g
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11. chrisc+4d[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 02:57:21
>>lmm+1c
So I give every quack the same attention, legitimacy, as say, an expert I trust? That's almost as bad advice as trust no one and do my own research for everything.
replies(2): >>_y5hn+no >>lmm+gP
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12. chrisc+cd[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 02:58:08
>>genera+X5
I'm still trusting the experts, and the experts are changing their minds. Nothing is going wrong here...
13. colech+Vd[view] [source] 2021-06-04 03:08:05
>>genera+(OP)
People say "do your own research" but really more than most people are incapable of finding and evaluating information on their own. "Read a bunch of blogs and facebook posts until something fits your pre-judged intuition" doesn't count as research and that is the extent of the abilities of people.

There is something distinctly missing from education even through undergraduate degrees: gathering, evaluating, and criticizing conflicting high quality research.

I took a philosophy class in the spring and one of the most striking things about it wasn't the material but the other students (most of whom a decade or more my junior) reactions to the material. A few of them were openly upset at the disagreement and inconsistency of philosophical opinion on every topic discussed; I didn't really understand it at first but then... What seems to have happened is basically for their entire education up to their senior years in undergrad, these people had only really ever been taught the Truth as though everything presented to them were solid facts and as a corollary, in general things should just be known and true or not.

There is a really big gap there. Sure, there are plenty of things which are quite certain, but people need to be driven to realize the truth doesn't just pop out one day, it is arrived at through a long process of disagreement and development and there are few ideas out there which weren't in their time quite controversial, and there is plenty still which is being presented as True which really has quite a bit of room for doubt.

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14. timeli+ae[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 03:10:46
>>tricer+66
I don’t think anyone is suggesting you learn about virology and fly to wuhan and start looking around. Maintaining multiple explanations as possibilities until one is proven, while resisting political tribalism shrouding your view of the truth, is I suppose hard for many people to pull off. But that is what we’re suggesting you try to do, maybe next time we have a global pandemic…
replies(1): >>tricer+hf
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15. tricer+bf[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 03:19:41
>>genera+L6
> If you listen to the experts

The "experts" rarely have a unanimous consensus on anything. If you actually listen to all of the experts, you'll hear all of the possibilities. But that still won't tell you who's right and who isn't.

On a question like "lab leak or meat market?" the answer isn't of importance to me, or any other average person. It's important for the experts to know the truth, in order to be able to prevent it next time. But other than that, finding someone (or several someones) to pin it on isn't going to give everyone the past 15 months of their lives back.

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16. tricer+hf[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 03:20:25
>>timeli+ae
> Maintaining multiple explanations as possibilities until one is proven

Why are you assuming my beliefs on this topic were set in stone previously?

replies(1): >>timeli+Lj
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17. tricer+6g[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 03:28:54
>>lmm+1c
All fair points. But again I question the part where you said "if you haven't actually investigated the authorities' credibility yourself". How would I, a person with no training in virology, do that?

At some point, you have to trust someone or some institution or organization or system.

replies(1): >>lmm+nh
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18. lmm+nh[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 03:43:59
>>tricer+6g
> But again I question the part where you said "if you haven't actually investigated the authorities' credibility yourself". How would I, a person with no training in virology, do that?

My point is that maybe you shouldn't stick your oar in in that case. The polarisation was exacerbated by a lot of non-experts who not just trusted the WHO (reasonable in itself) but felt the need to pile on anyone who was questioning them.

replies(1): >>tricer+em
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19. timeli+Lj[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 04:13:31
>>tricer+hf
I’m not, it’s clear you’re too lazy to even consider anything until it’s kicked down to you by the political machine
replies(2): >>_y5hn+hp >>dang+rp
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20. tricer+em[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 04:39:09
>>lmm+nh
I agree.
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21. _y5hn+no[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 04:59:17
>>chrisc+4d
At least after some damage, one then learns something.
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22. _y5hn+hp[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 05:10:01
>>timeli+Lj
In beginning and middle of pandemic energy is better spent on solving the crisis first. Truth is for mortals like a set of possibilities. Here media presented both possibilities and reported usual facts and opinions.

As we all know, media often gets thing wrong, as nobody are arbiters of Truth. So one reads it like that.

When president turned traitor, that was more damaging than this virus itself.

23. dang+np[view] [source] 2021-06-04 05:12:51
>>genera+(OP)
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27389001.
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24. dang+rp[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 05:14:06
>>timeli+Lj
You've broken the site guidelines badly and repeatedly in this thread. Crossing into personal attack is seriously not cool, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. And you broke other guidelines too.

I'm not going to ban you because it doesn't seem like this happened before, but we ban accounts that do this kind of thing, so please don't do it again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

replies(1): >>timeli+jj1
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25. lmm+gP[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 11:11:37
>>chrisc+4d
No, you make your own judgements, but you don't publish them. Otherwise initially legitimate credibility gets amplified to unreasonable levels because everyone ends up circularly reasoning that the more credible people are more credible.
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26. timeli+jj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 15:03:10
>>dang+rp
Excuse me, I witness snarky behavior in comments on this site constantly, but thank you for using your power to keep me in line :)
replies(1): >>dang+0T1
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27. dang+0T1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-06-04 17:49:42
>>timeli+jj1
That is like saying "even though I see other drivers speeding all the time, it's only me ever who gets pulled over for a ticket." Someone else breaking the rules doesn't make it ok for you to.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

If you see a post that ought to have been moderated but hasn't been, the likeliest explanation is that we didn't see it. There's far too much content here for us to read it all, or even see it all. People can help by flagging it or emailing us at hn@ycombinator.com.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

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