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1. Bayesi+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-05-07 13:24:25
The origin of COVID-19 is going to be one of the biggest news stories in 2021-22 IMO. China's global reputation is going to take a hit. I don't think they did this intentionally. I think everyone had the best of intentions and either they found something deep in a bat cave or there was a lab mishap. I've gone down the rabbit hole on this issue. Here are some interesting links https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=R01AI110964&hl=en&as_sd... is the papers done by a NIH grant to Eco Health Alliance. This shows they were looking for new variants of Coronavirus at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7089274/pdf/114... This shows they were artificially synthesizing Coronaviruses and incubating them in monkey cells. Dr. Peter Daszak seems to be in the center of a lot of this and IMO had a conflict of interest being on the WHO COVID-19 origins report.
replies(4): >>zby+u3 >>sumedh+7h >>fiftyf+Jl >>blumom+tC
2. zby+u3[view] [source] 2021-05-07 13:46:49
>>Bayesi+(OP)
I thought you misrepresented the linked paper - as it was clearly about checking some cross-immunity and not recombining genes - but then I found out deeper in the abstract:

""" Since SHC014 could not be success fully isolated, a recombinant virus (rWIV1-SHC014S) was constructed based on the WIV1 backbone with the replacement of SHC014S gene, as described previously (Zengetal.,2016). The S sequence of SHC014 was amplified with primer pair (F-SHC014-Bsa I, 5′-AGTGGTCTCAACGAA-CATGAAATTGTTAGTTTTAGTTTTTGCTAC-3′ and R-SHC014-Bsa I, 5′-TCAGGTCTCAGTTCGTTTATGTG-TAATGTAATTTGACACCCTTG-3′), digested with BsaI, and inserted into an artificial bacterial chromosome along with the other viral cDNA fragments."""

replies(1): >>xjlin0+3b
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3. xjlin0+3b[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-07 14:28:19
>>zby+u3
Recombination virus is commonly made everywhere, including US or China. Researchers made it mostly for getting genes for later use, antibody/antigen analysis in this case. Using virus/BAC is a very common lab technique and is very different from "intentionally making virus as a weapon to kill human". You can reconfirm with any of your wet-lab biotech majored friends. Please run an sequence analysis between rWIV1-SHC014S and the current COVID-19 virus before drawing misleading conclusion.

One analogy for developers: Bad persons are using git to develop ransomware, and company X is also using git, therefore company X is developing ransomware.

replies(1): >>flaviu+Sk
4. sumedh+7h[view] [source] 2021-05-07 14:57:03
>>Bayesi+(OP)
> I don't think they did this intentionally.

Then why did they cover up and downplay the seriousness at the start?

replies(2): >>caddem+Lj >>kirill+GD
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5. caddem+Lj[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-07 15:12:01
>>sumedh+7h
People fuck up accidentally and then intentionally cover it up all the time.
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6. flaviu+Sk[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-07 15:19:50
>>xjlin0+3b
you are right, except sars-cov-2 happened to appear 500 meters away from said lab...
replies(1): >>searin+Ub1
7. fiftyf+Jl[view] [source] 2021-05-07 15:24:54
>>Bayesi+(OP)
Neither scenario for how Sars-Cov-2 came to infect humans looks good for China, it's interesting that they are pushing one over the other.

On the one hand we have unsanitary food markets and the questionable production and sale of exotic animals for human consumption.

On the other extreme we have the potential escape of a genetically modified virus from a research lab.

Honestly I find the second scenario more reassuring, if it did escape from a lab then the Chinese and the international community can put measures in place to prevent it from happening again.

If the virus made the jump from a wild animal somewhere in China's exotic animal industry then what is the recourse? Can the Chinese Government clamp down on that industry enough to prevent it from happening again? Will the Chinese culturally be willing to give up consuming animals like bats and pangolins that are frequent reservoirs for coronaviruses?

I think the world should demand more openness from China on the matter and demand a plan to prevent another outbreak like this from happening again. The latest estimate is 7 million people dead world wide and trillions of dollars lost. Surely that should justify some hard lines drawn and the threat of economic sanctions if the world can't be given some kind of re-assurance that this won't happen again.

replies(1): >>mekkkk+FA
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8. mekkkk+FA[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-07 16:41:32
>>fiftyf+Jl
If I were the PR guy for China and I could choose what the origin was, I'd go for wet market without a doubt. The "ancient food culture" argument is much more complex, easier to defend and easier to empathize with.

Lab negligence is just a pure fuck up. Very hard to spin that and not take responsibility.

9. blumom+tC[view] [source] 2021-05-07 16:49:44
>>Bayesi+(OP)
Is it fair to blame China alone if the institute was financed with foreign help?
replies(1): >>himinl+Yl1
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10. kirill+GD[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-07 16:55:23
>>sumedh+7h
It’s not far fetched to say if a lab escape did occur, it would be in the government’s best interest to keep that secret (it could easily affect reputation/blame from others).

An analogous example would be a hit and run by a drive. The driver may have driven recklessly but not have meant to do damage to others, after damage is done the driver doesn’t want to be discovered. Similarly if this was a lab escape, the government doesn’t want their recklessness to be known.

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11. searin+Ub1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-07 19:50:27
>>flaviu+Sk
Maybe the reason the lab exists there is because wild coronaviruses appear in that region.

Which ever way you frame it, it is correlation, not causation. Poor evidence at best.

replies(2): >>flaviu+Se3 >>Too+CX4
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12. himinl+Yl1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-07 20:56:50
>>blumom+tC
They are responsible for enforcing safety standards, or having safety standards in the first place. Financiers have no authority on building standards or procedures, particularly in a place like China.
replies(1): >>blumom+Yn1
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13. blumom+Yn1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-07 21:12:41
>>himinl+Yl1
And what if that foreigners had paid you to create that deadly thing of a virus, even if it was just to see how bad a virus could be?
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14. flaviu+Se3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-08 15:31:29
>>searin+Ub1
SARS1 appeared in China, 2 provinces over, so quite far. And I was not talking necessarily about the Hubei region, but about the proximity of the first case to the lab: half a mile. City of Wuhan has a population of 11 million. The Hubei province has a population of 58 million.

Out of all the wet markets that serve that much population, the coronavirus just happened to appear at the market nearest to the lab studying coronaviruses. To have such a coincidence is like winning the lottery.

It's not evidence, sure, it's correlation at best. But this alone should make you investigate that lab much much better, it should be the first possible cause you research.

But looking at the lab first might be hard if you have a severe conflict of interest https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4119101

I am not saying this to "make China pay". After all, the US itself was sponsoring coronavirus research at that lab. But we should establish a worldwide safety standard in dealing with such research, and establish periodical inspections. Just like we do with Nuclear power plants, only better.

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15. Too+CX4[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-09 09:51:23
>>searin+Ub1
Circumstantial evidence is a better term. Judging the article the number of such pointing to the lab are piling up and should be hard to ignore, while those pointing in other directions are still very few.
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