zlacker

> in short, make markets fair (not just 'free').

I'm all for it. What's your concrete proposal to change in the current law for digital store distribution "tax"?

>>tchall+(OP)
you don't necessarily need new laws, just executive will to allocate earnest resources (diverted from, say, useless programs like the tsa or military boondoggle projects) put toward robustly promoting competitive markets.

for instance, make platforms like apple allow other app stores equal footing on their platform. then they would have to compete on price and features to get the best apps to be on their app store rather than resting on their laurels of being the only viable option. apple already has lots of advantages, so they don't need monopoly power on top of that to be able to compete effectively.

>>clairi+Ut
Yea you can force them to have multiple markets on the phone but that doesn’t mean that they won’t be colluding again. Apple and Google can have their stores on both iOS and Android and still keep 30%.

Also this would mean that you are killing off a feature to the end user (me in this case) where I actually like the walled garden as I don’t need to check and verify apps I download.

I understand where you are coming from but if I bought an iOS device (for my parents) I want them to not have a way to install other apps. For me that’s a feature. I don’t want there to be a way to enable anything that allows them to side load or use a different store. This is me as a consumer.

As a developer I see it like this: my (potential) customers decided to use Apple for a reason. I have to respect their decision. If that means I make 30% less than I can try and convince them to use Android and side load but I should respect their choice. Would I like the 30% off for myself - sure.

I think a big part of the discussion misses the reason ppl have chosen iOS and the arguments come from only one side.

If we can get to a position that makes sure that you keep you current state (gatekeeper + trust in iOS App Store + can’t get scammed with malware apps) but allows the option to distribute outside of that would be ideal but I’m too stupid to think of it :D

I just don’t want to kill off a feature I paid a huge amount of money (iOS devices for every close family member) to have and I feel that should be respected. :)

>>martim+iy
you'd still have the apple ios store so you wouldn't lose any of that walled garden if you prefer it.

>>clairi+tA
Yea but if you have another store you kinda lose it. Anyone could get tricked to install/sideload an app or enable the other stores.

So in fact you’re be losing the walled experience

>>martim+eC
i wouldn't count out network effects so quickly, which apple has in spades, to keep people, especially non-technical folks, on their app store as a default (and usually only) option. that's incidentally how google became the default (and often only) search engine without having any substantive lock-in early on.

>>clairi+yH
Sure I agree with that completely. But firstly that wouldn’t solve the issue for developers as then the arguments will just shift that other app stores should come preinatalled and later will shift it again (developers will never be happy with any percentage but also the review process does cost money, in app transactions infra as well), and secondly it increases the attack surface for scams (just watching on YouTube how old ppl get scammed makes me a bit uneasy that my parents are getting close to that age). Thirdly I think Google search is a very good example. Do you remember back in the day all those installers that had toolbars and would change your default search engine? I just don’t want us to open the door to anything remotely like that.

Honestly I think if maybe allow sideloading is an a setting available only for the iCloud family organiser to enable that mitigate most of my use cases.

>>martim+CJ
along those lines, instead of being preinstalled, choosing app stores could be part of the setup process. so if you only wanted the apple app store, you’d just set it up that way. adding another app store would necessarily present more friction than that.