zlacker

[parent] [thread] 10 comments
1. tyingq+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-03-28 12:14:53
Accidental lab escape, or premeditated lab escape?

Edit: Because the former doesn't sound like much of a conspiracy, aside from a cover-up afterwards.

replies(3): >>incrud+H >>whidde+Q >>mrkram+E1
2. incrud+H[view] [source] 2021-03-28 12:20:39
>>tyingq+(OP)
I'm gonna invoke Hanlon's razor on that one.
3. whidde+Q[view] [source] 2021-03-28 12:22:10
>>tyingq+(OP)
What’s odd is how infrequent it is for people to point out this distinction can never be known for sure.

From there, the only safe bet is to act as if it were intentional.

This is a controversial concept, but it is the rational choice. Never assume that someone who harms you is doing it accidentally. Even though it is more often than not the case, you still have to protect yourself with the possibility of malice in mind.

replies(3): >>incrud+c1 >>jmull+p3 >>atoav+B5
◧◩
4. incrud+c1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-03-28 12:26:12
>>whidde+Q
Taken to the extreme, there's a pathology for that line of reasoning:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecutory_delusion

5. mrkram+E1[view] [source] 2021-03-28 12:30:32
>>tyingq+(OP)
Most likely accidental if it was premeditated all out global bio-weapon war would happen.

Just like assassination of Austro-Hungarian heir Archduke Franz Ferdinand brought domino effect and caused First World war the same would happen now.

replies(2): >>cheapr+J6 >>cheapr+wc
◧◩
6. jmull+p3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-03-28 12:47:21
>>whidde+Q
How is that rational?

For one, if we assume it was released from a lab and that was intentional, the what was the intent?

If it was to do what happened — kill millions and devastate the global economy — then the right reaction is a very severe cold war or possibly outright war. We literally could not allow it to happen again.

But if it was released from a lab unintentionally, the right reaction is to spare no expense, regulation and treaty to secure such labs from this ever happening again. This would go for all labs like this, not just Chinese ones.

These are entirely different reactions with entirely different costs and long-term ramifications for peace and stability for our world.

Not to mention, the intentional release scenario doesn’t really make sense. E.g., China couldn’t damage our economy without damaging their own. And if you’re going to choose where to start the pandemic, why start it in your own country near a bio-research lab? If it was started intentionally, it makes more sense that China was framed. (Still doesn’t make a lot of sense though because what’s the rational motivation?)

◧◩
7. atoav+B5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-03-28 13:09:45
>>whidde+Q
I am going to transfer this to the individual:

Working with the default hypothesis of "everybody is out there to destroy me" is not only a sign of paranoia, but in most cases also wrong (because in reality not everything is about you and accidents happen).

So starting with the default hypothesis of malice has the serious downside that you will constantly feel threatened even if looking back there was no rational reason to feel threatened. This is not only incredibly exhausting, it also will lead to a "crying wolf"-type of problem, if the perceived threat rarely turns out to be one. And when something really dangerous is going to happen, you might not be able to react in a rational way (because all your previous reactions were irrational ones).

What I think is important to rationally tackle that question is also to factor in confidence. I will always assume innocence (just because it makes me a happier person), but that doesn't mean my confidence in the other person being innocent is always big. If there are signs that other person is acting in malice, my confidence that they are innocent will shrink. Once that confidence crosses a certain threshold I will assume malice. This can also happen within a split second, so I don't see how this would not be the rational way to do this. If you go get bread at the bakery, you wouldn't assume the baker wants to poison you per default right? So you would assume their innocence unless there are clear indicators they are a baker that poisons their customers. The other way around, if a man jumps out of a bush in a dark alley and comes at you with a knife, you wouldn't assume they are innocent, because there are really strong indicators they are not.

So what is irrational is to have incredible high confidence in either innocence or malice when in fact you are in a situation with lack of evidence to either direction. And this is the case in this situation.

◧◩
8. cheapr+J6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-03-28 13:17:30
>>mrkram+E1
>Most likely accidental if it was premeditated all out global bio-weapon war would happen.

No, because at the same time they'd simultaneously make it look accidental; with a dictatorial, authoritarian country like China they could keep the evidence that it was premedicated from coming to light _and_ they could count on their politically fractured victims reacting in such a way as to further their goals.

I notice that the matter of HCQ getting effectively shut down in the US due to the fraudulent Surgisphere paper and it _didn't raise any alarms at HN where someone asked WHY someone went through the trouble of planting a fake paper IN THE LANCET_.

It's been brought up here but noone notices the implications.

When did Hacker News become so damn intellectually incurious about these sorts of things?

◧◩
9. cheapr+wc[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-03-28 13:58:26
>>mrkram+E1
Oh, one more thing. If you were in charge and your choices were "Start WW3 with tens of millions of US Casualties" or "ignore the fact that the enemy just killed 400,000 people" what the heck would you do?
replies(1): >>mrkram+8t
◧◩◪
10. mrkram+8t[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-03-28 16:10:07
>>cheapr+wc
What did Bush do when September 11 attacks happened? United States responded by invading Afghanistan in order to fight Talibans and they brought Patriot Act in order to greatly tighten US national security; the act included three main provisions:

expanded abilities of law enforcement to surveil, including by tapping domestic and international phones;

eased interagency communication to allow federal agencies to more effectively use all available resources in counterterrorism efforts; and

increased penalties for terrorism crimes and an expanded list of activities which would qualify someone to be charged with terrorism.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

replies(1): >>cheapr+oC
◧◩◪◨
11. cheapr+oC[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-03-28 17:11:09
>>mrkram+8t
That's a non-sequitur. Bush wasn't President when this happened.

The critic of Bush who spent the first three years of his term under investigation by the US's intelligence agencies was. If they'd have been doing their job maybe we'd know more about who commissioned the Surgisphere paper, and it would have actually made the news.

[go to top]