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1. nickys+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-02-14 00:51:20
To me, both the official explanation and the conspiracy theory are both embarrassing for China and the CCP. SARS was supposed to have originated the same way -- in these disgusting third-world wet markets. The CCP shut them down after SARS for the sake of optics, but was too inept to "up" their health standards, and they conceded to pressure and reopened the disgusting third-world wet markets again.

If this was some sort of lab mistake, as the conspiracy angle suggests, IMO that's much less embarrassing. In the "real" explanation, thousands of mainlanders are regularly eating food contaminated with bat shit, with zero health standards. In the "conspiracy", they're a first-world country doing groundbreaking science, and an accident occurred.

I think they're probably telling the truth.

replies(5): >>yters+y >>eloff+G5 >>Terr_+r9 >>maxeri+ma >>ghomra+lg
2. yters+y[view] [source] 2021-02-14 00:57:36
>>nickys+(OP)
In the lab scenario their lax standards wiped out 2 million people and they covered it up. In the wet market scenario, it mostly reflects on the local inhabitants doing the usual black market stuff most local inhabitants of most countries do, and the CCP can only do so much to control their people. Plus, lab source has many other possible implications that are concerning, e.g. engineering bioweapons, IP theft, more nefarious conspiracy if it turns out to be a purposeful leak, etc. Wet market is overall much more benign. Also, from an evidential standpoint, lab outbreak seems much more plausible. Very easy to connect the dots with researchers, funders, etc. On the other hand, they cannot even determine the proximate transmission animal for the wet market theory, and the supposed bat source assembly is based on a faked dataset from the wuhan lab.
replies(2): >>ummonk+j5 >>yters+u6
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3. ummonk+j5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 01:48:25
>>yters+y
What faked dataset are you referring to? The bat source was sequenced several years ago after guano harvesters fell sick. And the most likely lab scenario actually involves either gain of function research on that sample or that sample being exposed to animals and / or humans where it recombined to allow human to human transmission.
replies(2): >>yters+i6 >>yters+E62
4. eloff+G5[view] [source] 2021-02-14 01:53:53
>>nickys+(OP)
> in these disgusting third-world wet markets

That's old information. The first cases of the virus had no connection with the wet market, and no connection could later be found other than it was the first major subsequent point of spreading for the virus. So it's much more likely that people spread it at the market, rather than that it came from there.

However, they are indeed disgusting third-world wet markets and the practice of consuming bush meat as well as having live wild animals of all different kinds together in a wet market is an experiment we shouldn't be conducting. The risk to reward ratio is way too high. Remember that HIV likely came from butchering and consuming contaminated chimpanzees in Africa. The world needs to put those kinds of practices behind us, it has cost us far more than it can ever be worth.

replies(2): >>JoshTk+qb >>whymau+ls
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5. yters+i6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 02:01:39
>>ummonk+j5
I'll have to refind the tweet, but a researcher found the read dataset could not be assembled into the bat coronavirus assembly.
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6. yters+u6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 02:03:47
>>yters+y
My conspiracy theory as to why someone might with good intention trigger the pandemic and then fast track the mRNA vaccine is to pave the way for gene therapy to reverse genetic entropy and reverse aging and consequently eliminate the genetic basis of death, granting us a sort of immortality. Eliminating death for untold numbers of people would justify the death of a few million from a utilitarian perspective. In fact, there is really no limit to the number you can kill in your research if the payoff is immortality for all, which would then give researchers time to bring about the singularity and digitally resurrect those sacrificed along the way. Sounds crazy, but does seem to be how a lot of tech elite think: utilitarianism, anti death, singularity, everything is ultimately a technical problem. It is also the logical conclusion if materialism is true, but tragically misguided if materialism is false. Just like all the other materialism based utopian ideologies of the past couple centuries that have killed hundreds of millions of people.
7. Terr_+r9[view] [source] 2021-02-14 02:43:56
>>nickys+(OP)
Note that "wet markets" are common around the world.

The (theorized) problem was that wild-caught land-animals happened to be part of the selection.

8. maxeri+ma[view] [source] 2021-02-14 02:58:48
>>nickys+(OP)
China was 2nd world country.

Of course you are making some other argument, but I doubt it's the poor people in Wuhan that are eating pangolins.

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9. JoshTk+qb[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 03:11:14
>>eloff+G5
Can you share your sources on your key points?
replies(1): >>eloff+Gi
10. ghomra+lg[view] [source] 2021-02-14 04:14:43
>>nickys+(OP)
The lies aren't for the international community, it's for the people of China.

If the wet market is at fault, it can be blamed on the local party leadership, which was easy enough to do because they continued to screw up during the early stages of the pandemic. One memorable one is when they hosted a massive dinner for 20000 people in close proximity when it was starting to really heat up.

If it's the lab, that squarely falls on the national government, which in all things can and must do no wrong.

A poster above said it perfectly, when your authority comes from competency, you need to show your competent. The CCP has this precarious position in China where the people support it strongly because they've been doing a good job giving people better lives, at least from their perspective. If that turns badly in any way, it could break them.

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11. eloff+Gi[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 04:46:00
>>JoshTk+qb
It should be easily found if you search for it.
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12. whymau+ls[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 07:21:41
>>eloff+G5
Unless you're advocating pure vegetarianism, prolonged animal husbandry will inevitably lead to more diseases crossing to humans. The idea that this is only a problem in Africa and Asia is entirely nonsensical.
replies(1): >>eloff+U11
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13. eloff+U11[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 14:18:46
>>whymau+ls
> Prolonged animal husbandry will inevitably lead to more diseases crossing to humans

Yes

> The idea that this is only a problem in Africa and Asia is entirely nonsensical.

No, this statement of yours is nonsensical. What I'm saying is the practice of eating bush meat, and these kinds of wet markets bring very little value by themselves. Compared to animal husbandry in general, not even 1% of the total value. However, they represent an outsized proportion of the risk. So it's a bad idea. One could improve the risk-reward ratio by eliminating them - entirely logical.

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14. yters+E62[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 22:05:25
>>ummonk+j5
Here's the tweet: https://twitter.com/bioinformer/status/1252813532850081792

"Mislabeled SRA entry is one thing but - it’s clear that it’s impossible (in my hands at least with a -very good- pipeline) to assemble the reference that is in GenBank from the data in SRA"

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